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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 12-20-05, 04:49 PM   #1
fastbub
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What Track Hubs Are Approved For Radial Lacing?

Thinking about building a set, and yes some of my motivation is looks ( I like radial lacing) I want to do radial in the front either 28 or 32 and on the rear I want to do radial on the drive and 2X on the non drive, probably on velocity rims, but I want to know what track hub flanges can take radial lacing?
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Old 12-20-05, 04:55 PM   #2
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zipps
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Old 12-20-05, 04:59 PM   #3
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aren't those polish ones that vopobl (or whatever his handle is) approved for radial too?

here's the thread hubs arrived
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Old 12-20-05, 05:00 PM   #4
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zipp even encourages you to do it. those things seem like total mother****ing tanks
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Old 12-20-05, 05:20 PM   #5
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what exactly is radial?
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Old 12-20-05, 05:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastbub
...on the rear I want to do radial on the drive and 2X on the non drive...
do it the other way at least if you are riding at all...
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Old 12-20-05, 05:34 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by rvabiker
what exactly is radial?
Lacing the spokes so that each spoke is perpendicular to the hub. In other words, the spokes never cross each other.
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Old 12-20-05, 05:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trespasser
do it the other way at least if you are riding at all...
From what I understand the torque load is shifted to the non-drive side since the hub is awfully stiff
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Old 12-20-05, 05:43 PM   #9
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All solid disk hub like Phil, Suntour will be okay for radially laced. Any hub like most Campy that have cut out will not be the best candidated for radially laced.
But hey I have seen many campy laced radially and they look fine if you not riding your bike too hard.
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Old 12-20-05, 05:59 PM   #10
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another question:
what benifits are there from radial lacing?
or is it just cause it looks .....BADASS! ?
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Old 12-20-05, 05:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastbub
From what I understand the torque load is shifted to the non-drive side since the hub is awfully stiff
ask mavic why they are doing it wrong way...
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Old 12-20-05, 07:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trespasser
ask mavic why they are doing it wrong way...
Using a pre-built wheel-set as an example is not a good reference. All the components in wheels such as these are engineered to work the way they do. Radial lacing on the drive side of a home built wheel is asking for trouble IMHO.
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Old 12-20-05, 08:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr20det
another question:
what benifits are there from radial lacing?
or is it just cause it looks .....BADASS! ?
Supposedly there it makes a stiffer wheel, since the spokes are shorter. Also you save about .1 grams since each spoke is .12 cm shorter. The main reason is style points though.
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Old 12-20-05, 08:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavernmech
Using a pre-built wheel-set as an example is not a good reference. All the components in wheels such as these are engineered to work the way they do. Radial lacing on the drive side of a home built wheel is asking for trouble IMHO.
Actually I have Mavic Ksyriums on my Merlin road bike and are aware that they do it opposite of what I am describing, if you look at some of the new shimano wheels r-550's they do it the way I am describing, some have suggested that it evens out the soke tension between both sides so there can be less stress on the drive side spokes.....not sure if I am describing that clearly.
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Old 12-20-05, 08:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr20det
another question:
what benifits are there from radial lacing?
or is it just cause it looks .....BADASS! ?
If you read my original post, I said that part of the motivation is looks, I am not denying that.
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Old 12-20-05, 08:39 PM   #16
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my lbs built my front radial. I forgot to tell him to make it 2x and when I picked them up, the front was radial and he said it makes it plenty stiff. I actually hate how they look but as long as it's sturdy and stong, I'll be fine. I'm interested in those hubs fron europe, the keirin shop ones.
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Old 12-20-05, 08:42 PM   #17
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from zipp.com
"The result is a hub that can be laced radial, one, two, three, or four cross to any spoke tension, and rebuilt as many times as you feel like it with absolutely no chance of cracking or failure in the flange. While most hub manufacturers void their warranty if you radial lace with their hubs, we encourage it."
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Old 12-20-05, 11:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastbub
Thinking about building a set, and yes some of my motivation is looks ( I like radial lacing) I want to do radial in the front either 28 or 32 and on the rear I want to do radial on the drive and 2X on the non drive, probably on velocity rims, but I want to know what track hub flanges can take radial lacing?
I would be more concerned about doing 2 types of lacing on a symetrical wheel. I think this may work for a asymetrical geared hub because most of the stress is in the drive side spokes. Granted, I'm no pro wheel builder but I have 5 or so wheel sets under my belt, I would build a track wheel no less then 3x, but that's me.
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Old 12-20-05, 11:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trespasser
ask mavic why they are doing it wrong way...
FYI: Some mavic ksyriums (older models maybe?) are built radial drive side, 2x non driveside.
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Old 12-21-05, 07:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonFixed
FYI: Some mavic ksyriums (older models maybe?) are built radial drive side, 2x non driveside.
i'm pretty sure 05 ksyrium sl's are radial drive side.

this page: http://www.geocities.com/spokeanwheel/lacingsr.htm talks about how radial drive-side lacing makes sense, not radial non-drive lacing.

but cavernmech had it right-- wheels that are engineered by computers and robots from the future aren't a good frame of reference for wheels such as the kind we're talking about.
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Old 01-24-06, 11:58 AM   #21
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So while it seems like the Zipps encourage radial lacing, does radial lacing void the warantee on Phil high flange track hubs? I searched and couldn't find the answer.
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Old 01-24-06, 12:20 PM   #22
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Yeah one thing about alot of mavic wheels though is that the hubs/spokes are made differently. The spokes are perfectly straight (i.e: no little bend where the go in to the hub) and therefore can't crack the wee tiny little amount of metal holding them in. They can also be laced significantly tighter to allow for less spokes and radial spoking that will get you a noticeably stiffer wheel.
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Old 01-24-06, 12:25 PM   #23
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It who build your wheels and how they do it that make them survived the hard life.

Low Flange is better IMHO.

S/F,
CEYA!
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Old 01-24-06, 12:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastbub
From what I understand the torque load is shifted to the non-drive side since the hub is awfully stiff
You understand incorrectly. You can build a normal wheel radial drive side and whatever cross non-drive side. Your hub and wheel doesn't "split" the torque down the middle of the hub, but attempts to distribute it throughout the enire wheel as a unit, whether it be 20 spoke wheel, or a manhold cover.
That said, it probably is a better idea to keep the leading and lagging "dynamic" spokes closer to the drivechain.
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Old 01-24-06, 12:30 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ceya

Low Flange is better IMHO.

S/F,
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really? why is that?
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