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  1. #1
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    What hubs use Allen bolts

    I know both the P guys do, but Paul is spaced too wide, and Phil is priced too high. It's not the most important thing in the world to me, but I like the idea of allen bolts instead of track nuts, because it's one less tool I need to cary around, and they look nice. So I'm just curious if anyone else makes a fixed hub with allen bolts.

  2. #2
    crotchety young dude el twe's Avatar
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    You could go hollow axle with BMX style allen bolts instead of QRs...
    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacKid View Post
    I explained that he could never pay me enough cash for the amount of work I had put into that bike and the only way to compensate me for it was to ride the hell out of it.
    IRO Angus Casati Gold Line

  3. #3
    i believe in me evanyc's Avatar
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    paul is spaced to wide?

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    mavic 520s

  5. #5
    summer vacation since '85 stendhalian's Avatar
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    Is there not the chance of a little stripping from the alan key over time? Not Phils, but the alan key nuts on my ENO eccentric hubs have stripped a bit (more than likely from the repeated chain tensioning that results from riding the goddamned things fixed).Can't seem to ever keep them lock tight and have given up and allowed a very slight bit of allowable slack in my chain...

  6. #6
    Lunigma
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    Quote Originally Posted by el twe
    You could go hollow axle with BMX style allen bolts instead of QRs...
    can you give use more info on this?

  7. #7
    Doortrapper popluhv's Avatar
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    Level Hubs

  8. #8
    Cornucopia of Awesomeness baxtefer's Avatar
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    pauls are available in 120 spacing. how is that too wide?
    (or are you talkin' their weirdass chainline?)
    {o,o**
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    O RLY?

  9. #9
    Frozen in carbonite Grimlock's Avatar
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    While we're on the topic, why do Phil's et al use allen bolts instead of track nuts? I can't see any point beyond minimizing the number of tools one would carry for on-the-go repairs. It seems to me that it would also be easier to strip a 6mm bolt versus a 15mm nut.
    So is this a case of new and not-so-improved technology or am I missing something?

  10. #10
    crotchety young dude el twe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunigma
    can you give use more info on this?
    Yeah, if you find/use a hub with a hollow axle meant for a QR, you can swap out the QR portion of the axle for an allen head skewer. I can't find any online, but I believe they wer X-Games branded (Bell, maybe?). Happy hunting!
    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacKid View Post
    I explained that he could never pay me enough cash for the amount of work I had put into that bike and the only way to compensate me for it was to ride the hell out of it.
    IRO Angus Casati Gold Line

  11. #11
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    twe means this:

    You just get hubs with hollow axles and replace the QR skewer with the hex bolt on skewers...



    http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

    [and yes, a QR/bolt on skewer will work with ss/fixed gear.]

  12. #12
    Senior Member daveed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stendhalian
    Is there not the chance of a little stripping from the alan key over time? Not Phils, but the alan key nuts on my ENO eccentric hubs have stripped a bit (more than likely from the repeated chain tensioning that results from riding the goddamned things fixed).Can't seem to ever keep them lock tight and have given up and allowed a very slight bit of allowable slack in my chain...
    I've had this problem, too, with the fixed side of my ENO though the hub nuts haven't stripped. My solution is to use an adjustable wrench when, for whatever reason I remove the rear wheel, to adjust for tension. But this means carrying around "another tool." Also: I'm fairly careful making the adjustment, using a Park hex wrench or three-way and sinking it deep into the hub nut. It's frustrating, I know.

  13. #13
    summer vacation since '85 stendhalian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonFixed
    twe means this:

    You just get hubs with hollow axles and replace the QR skewer with the hex bolt on skewers...
    talk about stripping...these things are the worst! but a quick solution to the problem if you've got the
    hollow axles...

  14. #14
    dances with bicycle 46x17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock
    While we're on the topic, why do Phil's et al use allen bolts instead of track nuts? I can't see any point beyond minimizing the number of tools one would carry for on-the-go repairs. It seems to me that it would also be easier to strip a 6mm bolt versus a 15mm nut.
    So is this a case of new and not-so-improved technology or am I missing something?
    My first track hubs had track nuts.
    After tightening and untightening a bit the nut crapped out.
    I bought new good nuts and a proper wrench for them - the still crapped out after a while.
    After stripping the old hub I got a Phils with allens.
    So far there has been no issue with the allens. Not sure why that is but the Phil allens definitely work.
    Lack of the integrated washer deal might explain it a little.
    I also seem able to tighten the allens a lot more.
    Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baxtefer
    pauls are available in 120 spacing. how is that too wide?
    (or are you talkin' their weirdass chainline?)
    I thought they were only available in 130mm. they have weirdass chainline? I like stuff to all be 120/42mm for simplicity's sake. Buy stuff that adhere's to a common standard, and it's eaiser to get other stuff to work with it. But anyway... yeah Level stuff looks nice too. Isn't it up there with Phil pricewise though?

  16. #16
    summer vacation since '85 stendhalian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveed
    I've had this problem, too, with the fixed side of my ENO though the hub nuts haven't stripped. My solution is to use an adjustable wrench when, for whatever reason I remove the rear wheel, to adjust for tension. But this means carrying around "another tool." Also: I'm fairly careful making the adjustment, using a Park hex wrench or three-way and sinking it deep into the hub nut. It's frustrating, I know.
    terribly frustrating...my debernardi track frame is in the mail and the pro-max's and deep v
    's are laced and waiting...

  17. #17
    Lunigma
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    Quote Originally Posted by el twe
    Yeah, if you find/use a hub with a hollow axle meant for a QR, you can swap out the QR portion of the axle for an allen head skewer. I can't find any online, but I believe they wer X-Games branded (Bell, maybe?). Happy hunting!
    i can only assume your talking about something like this :http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename= from nashbar.
    would these mess with the compression of the bearings. in other words would they apply extra force to the bearings

  18. #18
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    heh, like that info would fit here...
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    Those are tranx-X brand and have worked pretty well on all of my bikes w/ hollow axles (all non-fixed, though). The key to not stripping parts is to always use the proper tool in the proper fashion. For allens, make sure that the tool is as far into the hole as it can possibly go. This gives you much more contact area and less chance of slipping. For track nuts, use a properly-sized box end wrench if you can so that you contact all sides at the same time. Use an adjustable wrench only when absolutely necessary.

  19. #19
    Frozen in carbonite Grimlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 46x17
    I also seem able to tighten the allens a lot more.
    ...more that your first pair of hex nuts or other track bolts? It still seems to me that the inconvenience of carrying a 300 gram 15mm wrench is outweighed by the assurance that it won't fail.
    But maybe I'm just putting too much faith in 9mm of metal.

  20. #20
    artistic tricyclist
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    chris king makes hubs that use fun bolts

  21. #21
    dances with bicycle 46x17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock
    ...more that your first pair of hex nuts or other track bolts? It still seems to me that the inconvenience of carrying a 300 gram 15mm wrench is outweighed by the assurance that it won't fail.
    But maybe I'm just putting too much faith in 9mm of metal.
    I can tighten them more that any traditional track nut I have ever used.

    I had the same doubts about the allens as you, but I can reassure you that they work very well.
    There is one additional benefit with allens and that is that you can remove the weel without breaking the chain even if is it all the way forward in the dropouts, since the allen bolts come out all the way.
    The "no additional tool benefit" I think is exagerated too. I do not notice the weight difference of my bag since I removed it.
    Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by invicta
    chris king makes hubs that use fun bolts
    Singlespeed coasty only.

  23. #23
    hateful little monkey jim-bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonFixed
    Singlespeed coasty only.
    Hey, it's a singlespeed forum!

  24. #24
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    Van Dessel makes a hub that uses Allen head cap screws. I don't know the chain line though (but would like to).

  25. #25
    jack of one or two trades Aeroplane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunigma
    i can only assume your talking about something like this :http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename= from nashbar.
    would these mess with the compression of the bearings. in other words would they apply extra force to the bearings
    They wouldn't mess with the force on the bearings any more than the current quick releases, or a normal bolt-on axle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Irwin Goldstein
    Men should never ride bicycles. Riding should be banned and outlawed. It is
    the most irrational form of exercise I could ever bring to discussion.

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