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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 12-21-05, 06:36 PM   #1
mattface
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What hubs use Allen bolts

I know both the P guys do, but Paul is spaced too wide, and Phil is priced too high. It's not the most important thing in the world to me, but I like the idea of allen bolts instead of track nuts, because it's one less tool I need to cary around, and they look nice. So I'm just curious if anyone else makes a fixed hub with allen bolts.
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Old 12-21-05, 06:37 PM   #2
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You could go hollow axle with BMX style allen bolts instead of QRs...
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Old 12-21-05, 06:38 PM   #3
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paul is spaced to wide?
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Old 12-21-05, 06:40 PM   #4
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Old 12-21-05, 06:46 PM   #5
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Is there not the chance of a little stripping from the alan key over time? Not Phils, but the alan key nuts on my ENO eccentric hubs have stripped a bit (more than likely from the repeated chain tensioning that results from riding the goddamned things fixed).Can't seem to ever keep them lock tight and have given up and allowed a very slight bit of allowable slack in my chain...
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Old 12-21-05, 06:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el twe
You could go hollow axle with BMX style allen bolts instead of QRs...
can you give use more info on this?
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Old 12-21-05, 06:50 PM   #7
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Old 12-21-05, 07:20 PM   #8
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pauls are available in 120 spacing. how is that too wide?
(or are you talkin' their weirdass chainline?)
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Old 12-21-05, 07:27 PM   #9
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While we're on the topic, why do Phil's et al use allen bolts instead of track nuts? I can't see any point beyond minimizing the number of tools one would carry for on-the-go repairs. It seems to me that it would also be easier to strip a 6mm bolt versus a 15mm nut.
So is this a case of new and not-so-improved technology or am I missing something?
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Old 12-21-05, 07:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunigma
can you give use more info on this?
Yeah, if you find/use a hub with a hollow axle meant for a QR, you can swap out the QR portion of the axle for an allen head skewer. I can't find any online, but I believe they wer X-Games branded (Bell, maybe?). Happy hunting!
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Old 12-21-05, 07:44 PM   #11
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twe means this:

You just get hubs with hollow axles and replace the QR skewer with the hex bolt on skewers...



http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

[and yes, a QR/bolt on skewer will work with ss/fixed gear.]
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Old 12-21-05, 07:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stendhalian
Is there not the chance of a little stripping from the alan key over time? Not Phils, but the alan key nuts on my ENO eccentric hubs have stripped a bit (more than likely from the repeated chain tensioning that results from riding the goddamned things fixed).Can't seem to ever keep them lock tight and have given up and allowed a very slight bit of allowable slack in my chain...
I've had this problem, too, with the fixed side of my ENO though the hub nuts haven't stripped. My solution is to use an adjustable wrench when, for whatever reason I remove the rear wheel, to adjust for tension. But this means carrying around "another tool." Also: I'm fairly careful making the adjustment, using a Park hex wrench or three-way and sinking it deep into the hub nut. It's frustrating, I know.
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Old 12-21-05, 07:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonFixed
twe means this:

You just get hubs with hollow axles and replace the QR skewer with the hex bolt on skewers...
talk about stripping...these things are the worst! but a quick solution to the problem if you've got the
hollow axles...
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Old 12-21-05, 07:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimlock
While we're on the topic, why do Phil's et al use allen bolts instead of track nuts? I can't see any point beyond minimizing the number of tools one would carry for on-the-go repairs. It seems to me that it would also be easier to strip a 6mm bolt versus a 15mm nut.
So is this a case of new and not-so-improved technology or am I missing something?
My first track hubs had track nuts.
After tightening and untightening a bit the nut crapped out.
I bought new good nuts and a proper wrench for them - the still crapped out after a while.
After stripping the old hub I got a Phils with allens.
So far there has been no issue with the allens. Not sure why that is but the Phil allens definitely work.
Lack of the integrated washer deal might explain it a little.
I also seem able to tighten the allens a lot more.
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Old 12-21-05, 07:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baxtefer
pauls are available in 120 spacing. how is that too wide?
(or are you talkin' their weirdass chainline?)
I thought they were only available in 130mm. they have weirdass chainline? I like stuff to all be 120/42mm for simplicity's sake. Buy stuff that adhere's to a common standard, and it's eaiser to get other stuff to work with it. But anyway... yeah Level stuff looks nice too. Isn't it up there with Phil pricewise though?
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Old 12-21-05, 07:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveed
I've had this problem, too, with the fixed side of my ENO though the hub nuts haven't stripped. My solution is to use an adjustable wrench when, for whatever reason I remove the rear wheel, to adjust for tension. But this means carrying around "another tool." Also: I'm fairly careful making the adjustment, using a Park hex wrench or three-way and sinking it deep into the hub nut. It's frustrating, I know.
terribly frustrating...my debernardi track frame is in the mail and the pro-max's and deep v
's are laced and waiting...
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Old 12-21-05, 07:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el twe
Yeah, if you find/use a hub with a hollow axle meant for a QR, you can swap out the QR portion of the axle for an allen head skewer. I can't find any online, but I believe they wer X-Games branded (Bell, maybe?). Happy hunting!
i can only assume your talking about something like this :http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename= from nashbar.
would these mess with the compression of the bearings. in other words would they apply extra force to the bearings
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Old 12-21-05, 08:02 PM   #18
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Those are tranx-X brand and have worked pretty well on all of my bikes w/ hollow axles (all non-fixed, though). The key to not stripping parts is to always use the proper tool in the proper fashion. For allens, make sure that the tool is as far into the hole as it can possibly go. This gives you much more contact area and less chance of slipping. For track nuts, use a properly-sized box end wrench if you can so that you contact all sides at the same time. Use an adjustable wrench only when absolutely necessary.
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Old 12-21-05, 08:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46x17
I also seem able to tighten the allens a lot more.
...more that your first pair of hex nuts or other track bolts? It still seems to me that the inconvenience of carrying a 300 gram 15mm wrench is outweighed by the assurance that it won't fail.
But maybe I'm just putting too much faith in 9mm of metal.
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Old 12-21-05, 08:24 PM   #20
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chris king makes hubs that use fun bolts
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Old 12-21-05, 08:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimlock
...more that your first pair of hex nuts or other track bolts? It still seems to me that the inconvenience of carrying a 300 gram 15mm wrench is outweighed by the assurance that it won't fail.
But maybe I'm just putting too much faith in 9mm of metal.
I can tighten them more that any traditional track nut I have ever used.

I had the same doubts about the allens as you, but I can reassure you that they work very well.
There is one additional benefit with allens and that is that you can remove the weel without breaking the chain even if is it all the way forward in the dropouts, since the allen bolts come out all the way.
The "no additional tool benefit" I think is exagerated too. I do not notice the weight difference of my bag since I removed it.
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Old 12-21-05, 08:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invicta
chris king makes hubs that use fun bolts
Singlespeed coasty only.
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Old 12-21-05, 08:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Singlespeed coasty only.
Hey, it's a singlespeed forum!
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Old 12-21-05, 11:25 PM   #24
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Van Dessel makes a hub that uses Allen head cap screws. I don't know the chain line though (but would like to).
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Old 12-22-05, 08:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunigma
i can only assume your talking about something like this :http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename= from nashbar.
would these mess with the compression of the bearings. in other words would they apply extra force to the bearings
They wouldn't mess with the force on the bearings any more than the current quick releases, or a normal bolt-on axle.
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