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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 01-14-06, 10:35 PM   #1
nausea95
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Suntour Superbe Pro Cranks

What is the BCD on the Suntour Superbe Pro Cranks, not sure on the model or year, but they are shown in this picture... What size bottom bracket would fit these well.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/ima...n/STSuPr2L.jpg

While I'm posting this anyway, how do these older models compare in everyone's opinions to miche, and sugino 75 cranks.
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Old 01-14-06, 10:37 PM   #2
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check business cycles, they have a lot of good information on their site.
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Old 01-14-06, 10:44 PM   #3
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that's a road double. BCD should be 130mm.
according to sheldon they took a 111mm ISO tapered spindle.
though, I've heard that it's best to use a suntour superbe pro BB with them as the taper is slightly different. but that might just be a stupid rumor.
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Old 01-14-06, 11:02 PM   #4
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Here is a shot of what I beleive are the exact same arms with a single chainring...

Great, I found BCD on business cycles, thanks.
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Old 01-14-06, 11:04 PM   #5
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The track cranks use the standard 144bcd (not sure about the road models). I use a set with a Tange bottom bracket without trouble. I've never used Sugino 75's or Miche cranks, but generally Suntour stuff is really good...especially the track stuff.
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Old 01-14-06, 11:07 PM   #6
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Campagnolo style, Shimano durability.
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Old 01-14-06, 11:13 PM   #7
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Are you trying to keep hidden the fact that these are an ebay auction?
Just curious.
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Old 01-14-06, 11:15 PM   #8
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road model is 144 BDC also

Sugino = great stuff and can fit on a variety of current BBs (Sugino, Hatta, Shimano)
Miche = good cranks, but their BCD is proprietary (135). The rings are widely available and the BB is really friggin good for the price.

FYI: back in the day, Tange made the Suntour BBs and Headsets and Sugino made the cranks. If you listen to the winds, they will tell you everything you need to know.
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Old 01-14-06, 11:27 PM   #9
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Yep, Conorb wants those...currently sitting at $51 with 3 days to go. Earlier this week a used pair went for $33.

Gotta love his description "do not have the NJS stamp because they where made before the NJS classification existed" but they are listed as NJS in the Title.. When did NJS stamping start?
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Old 01-14-06, 11:58 PM   #10
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http://www.trackmania.de/pdf.keirin/keirin.e.pdf
Looks like it would definitely be post-1948 and perhaps later than 1957

Tomity-san might know the answer.
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Old 01-15-06, 12:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZappCatt
Yep, Conorb wants those...currently sitting at $51 with 3 days to go. Earlier this week a used pair went for $33.

Gotta love his description "do not have the NJS stamp because they where made before the NJS classification existed" but they are listed as NJS in the Title.. When did NJS stamping start?
while i'd also like to know when njs stamping and certification started, i'd bet a lot of beer that it was before superbe pro stuff started being manufactured.
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Old 01-15-06, 12:10 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by dolface
while i'd also like to know when njs stamping and certification started, i'd bet a lot of beer that it was before superbe pro stuff started being manufactured.
jackpot.
these are road cranks, guaranteed.
*note* the back side of the cranks are not shown. True track cranks will not have a lip set on the back side of the spider - that is for a second, inner road ring mounting. I bet if the seller shows a picture of the backside if the spider, there will be a lip for an inner ring. Additionally, the backside of the arm is where the NJS stamp is on Suntour Superbe Pro track cranks (as well as most other NJS crank models).

Unless this is some freakish anomoly that missed the NJS stamping machine...or something like that. Dubious and suspect to me.

Last edited by pitboss; 01-15-06 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 01-15-06, 08:48 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by [165]
Unless this is some freakish anomoly that missed the NJS stamping machine...or something like that. Dubious and suspect to me.
I'm with you, although there is the possibility that if they are track cranks that they were made for export. Aren't there a bunch of 3Rensho track frames floating around that aren't stamped because they were not made for the domestic (ie, Keirin) market? It's probably just a shifty auction though...
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Old 01-15-06, 11:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by hyperRevue
Are you trying to keep hidden the fact that these are an ebay auction?
Just curious.
why wouldn't I? not as though I don't realize a lot of you would see them anyway, i'm not going to give the seller some free advertising for the hell of it.

i'd rather include in a description of my bike once they're on it that i got them off ebay for cheap, NOT before the auction is over.
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Old 01-15-06, 11:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [165]
jackpot.
these are road cranks, guaranteed.
*note* the back side of the cranks are not shown. True track cranks will not have a lip set on the back side of the spider - that is for a second, inner road ring mounting. I bet if the seller shows a picture of the backside if the spider, there will be a lip for an inner ring. Additionally, the backside of the arm is where the NJS stamp is on Suntour Superbe Pro track cranks (as well as most other NJS crank models).

Unless this is some freakish anomoly that missed the NJS stamping machine...or something like that. Dubious and suspect to me.
Ok, so they if they aren't a true track set, I could see them not being worth as much, but I don't really care about njs certification, or if some of my components were intended for track use, I'm wondering how this would affect them being used on a fixed gear drivetrain (as far as chainline and any other problems).
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Old 01-15-06, 12:01 PM   #16
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You'd most likely have to install the chainring on the inside mount.
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Old 01-15-06, 12:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nausea95
I'm wondering how this would affect them being used on a fixed gear drivetrain (as far as chainline and any other problems).
no clue - get them and find out. Experience is of the utmost value.
Or drop Sheldon a line. It is possible he knows more on your question and can make a recommendation based on your needs.
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Old 01-15-06, 07:31 PM   #18
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For a few years suntour Sprint and Superbe Pro cranks used a funny taper (1.8 degree taper instead of the 2 degree of ISO and JIS) while cyclone and below used standard tapers. In my limited experience, the .2 degrees does not make much of a difference. If you buy a shimano spindle, go shorter and be aware that the crank will not slide as far onto the taper as it should. Campy spindles are a better fit (more engagement but still not bottoming out) but you have less options for spindle length. I think campy sells 102, 111, 115 with nothing in between. I used to have a set of the road cranks with the grease guard BB. It was nice stuff, but you might want to pass if you can't find a BB that would give good chainline.
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Old 01-15-06, 07:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [165]
jackpot.
these are road cranks, guaranteed.
*note* the back side of the cranks are not shown. True track cranks will not have a lip set on the back side of the spider - that is for a second, inner road ring mounting. I bet if the seller shows a picture of the backside if the spider, there will be a lip for an inner ring. Additionally, the backside of the arm is where the NJS stamp is on Suntour Superbe Pro track cranks (as well as most other NJS crank models).

Unless this is some freakish anomoly that missed the NJS stamping machine...or something like that. Dubious and suspect to me.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by a lip, but he posted a shot of the backside so... what do you think?

I can't find much information/images of these cranksets online so, I still can't tell but if I spend 100+ on a decent crankset, I'd rather not have to deal with chain line issues like bolting the chainring on the back, or whatever else. I'd just ask the seller, but... with all this 'pre-NJS' so it couldn't be certified stuff I can't really say I'd trust his info.
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Old 01-15-06, 07:50 PM   #20
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wow - I asked them to do that! Now I am perplexed as they look like the Suntour track cranks I have. Hmmm...
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Old 01-15-06, 08:02 PM   #21
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wow - I asked them to do that! Now I am perplexed as they look like the Suntour track cranks I have. Hmmm...

I asked him too, I guess he have received Q's from like 5 of us... If they are the same track ones you got, I still don't see why they wouldn't have the NJS stamp. why bother making an njs and non-njs version of the same crank?

Anyone else with superbe pros they know are track that can compare their's to?

If I don't end winning the bidding on these, anyone have a set laying around they want to sell?

Last edited by nausea95; 01-15-06 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 01-17-06, 08:43 AM   #22
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all i know is:

i have the road kind on my fixie (used to have a double on them), they have a 144bcd, they fit just fine on a shimano bottom bracket (the one that came in my frame), seem really nice and stiff, and i get a nice chainline with the ring in the outside position but the BB does seem unusually narrow compared to my other drivetrains.

if you have a few different width BB's to play with i am sure you will be able to make these cranks work real well!
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Old 01-17-06, 10:17 AM   #23
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I heard once from Shimano that they had to pay a fee for NJS certification that was calculated in part on the number of pieces actually stamped NJS. So it isn't unusual to see manufacturers leaving the stamp off on parts that are intended for export. I certainly have seen 36 hole Dura Ace 7600 high flange hubs without the NJS stamp, and have seen Suntour Superbe Pro hubs the same way.

Suntour didn't do much of their own manufacturing, sourcing parts from other manufacturers. They also did short special runs on order for customers. These practices also led to items that didn't get NJS stamps either as a matter of timing inconvenience, a non-certified manufacturing source, or because some small nit was changed and it didn't meet the original NJS qualification standards. I have a very rare NOS double-sided fixed/fixed Suntour Superbe Pro 36 hole hub -- Yellow Jersey, who has all the Suntour catalogs, has never seen it listed (or even seen one), but there's no question about what it is. But no NJS stamp because it wasn't the single-sided product approved for NJS certification.

On Suntour Superbe Pro cranks, do be aware that they just aren't all that stiff compared to a Dura Ace 7710 or a Sugino Super Mighty. While the Suntour is stylish, I'd actually recommend you look at the 7710 or Super Mighty. I've had nothing but good experiences with both of these. The Super Mighty gets something like 25 drop forging steps (compared with about 3 for the Sugino 75), which you can actually see in the edges and back of the crank, but it makes it ferociously stiff and durable. And it fits all the Hatta and Sugino tapered-spline bottom brackets, or a Phil Wood if you're so inclined. I like a lot of Superbe Pro equipment, both road and track, but the cranks just aren't as good as the rest of the line.

Edit: Sorry, my sloppiness. I was referring to the Sugino Grand Mighty.

Last edited by 11.4; 01-17-06 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 01-17-06, 10:49 AM   #24
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11.4 (sorry to take this off-topic): how do you feel about Campy Record cranks? And what would be your list in order of stiffness and crank choice?
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Old 01-17-06, 11:15 AM   #25
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++ Sugino Super Mighty. Haven't had them long, but I really dig them.
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