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  1. #1
    artistic tricyclist
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    High Flange Hub Failure

    So its 7:30 this morning and i throw my leg over the bike to head off the 10 miles to school. I start pedalling and before I get out of my nieghbourhood I hear an ping and snap and the front wheel goes wonky... I figure I snapped a spoke so i turn around and walk home to call a cab and inspect the damage... One snapped flange...and yes, it was laced radially. The hub is a higher end shimano from the mid seventies...


  2. #2
    going down... salmonchild's Avatar
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    ouch
    well here's the blog

  3. #3
    meet the mets chicagoamdream's Avatar
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    Oo, crap.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    How cold was it?

  5. #5
    artistic tricyclist
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    -10 celsius, bike stays outside though..

  6. #6
    One speed: FAST ! fordfasterr's Avatar
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    you keep your bike outside ? man... even farmers put the chickens inside of their own coop and the horses in the barn !

    LOL

    Get that thing a proper home !
    Florida Velodrome Association.
    Big Wheel Cycles.
    CAT-2. Road Bike: 2011 Specialized Allez SRAM Apex. .. and yes, I am vegan.

  7. #7
    Taking "s" outta "Fast" AfterThisNap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invicta
    it was laced radially + The hub is ... from the mid seventies
    Bingo.

  8. #8
    meet the mets chicagoamdream's Avatar
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    Actually, forget about any sympathy. You can just go have a big bowl of poutine to help you get over it, and any time you want, really, so I really can't feel TOO sorry for you.

  9. #9
    Senior Member brunning's Avatar
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    the hub body looks a bit rusted or corroded. i'd guess that, combined with the added stress of radial lacing and maybe general old age contribued to the failure.

  10. #10
    blah onetwentyeight's Avatar
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    At least is was the front, not the back..

    and are radial lacings known to be weaker?

  11. #11
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by onetwentyeight
    At least is was the front, not the back..

    and are radial lacings known to be weaker?
    The holes are drilled close to the edge, so they are a little weaker with the spokes pulling straight out, than at an angle.

  12. #12
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onetwentyeight
    and are radial lacings known to be weaker?
    sort of, but that doesn't mean that the radial lacing was the cause of the failure.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  13. #13
    Taking "s" outta "Fast" AfterThisNap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk
    sort of, but that doesn't mean that the radial lacing was the cause of the failure.
    I think it is. Even King won't warranty their hubs if laced radially. They claim it puts too much stress on the flange. Comparing one of thier hubs with a vintage part from the 70s, it should be pretty obvious why it broke. Those flanges are super thin and cut out a lot more, so there is just not that much material holding it together. Look at the direction of the cracks. Straight out, radially across several spokes, not diagonal tears or just a few isolated spokes pulling a section of hub as when 2 or 3x laced.

    That said, I *heart* radially laced wheels. My fixed uses 3x f/r, but my road and MTBs have radial lacing front and non-drive side rear.
    Last edited by AfterThisNap; 01-17-06 at 09:18 AM.

  14. #14
    artistic tricyclist
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    no corrosion, thats just road grime...

  15. #15
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by AfterThisNap
    I think it is. Even King won't warranty their hubs if laced radially. They claim it puts too much stress on the flange. Comparing one of thier hubs with a vintage part from the 70s, it should be pretty obvious why it broke. Those flanges are super thin and cut out a lot more, so there is just not that much material holding it together. Look at the direction of the cracks. Straight out, radially across several spokes, not diagonal tears or just a few isolated spokes pulling a section of hub when 2 or 3x laced.
    I have heard of chris king hubs breaking because they were laced radially. If it will break a king, it will definitely break a 30yo, work hardened, -10C shimano hub.

  16. #16
    Tiocfáidh ár Lá jfmckenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onetwentyeight
    and are radial lacings known to be weaker?
    No I believe they are actually stronger and that is the problem.

    ---

    Sorry about your hub

  17. #17
    Taking "s" outta "Fast" AfterThisNap's Avatar
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    It somewhat depends on the application, but wheel to wheel radial lacing isn't inherently stronger or weaker a lacing pattern than standard Xes to a significant degree. It does put more stress on the hub flange for a variety of reasons, so when you start out with a hub that is thin/high flanged, made with 30 year old alloy technology, and probably worn the fawk out, then you've introduced a weak link into your radially laced wheel.

  18. #18
    spinspinspinspin fatbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invicta

    looks like it broke at that one spoke hole first, then the rest of it pulled apart.
    It probably wouldn't have broken at the spoke hole without radial lacing.

  19. #19
    i don't stop travsi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AfterThisNap
    Even King won't warranty their hubs if laced radially.
    ...king doesn't, but zipp does!

  20. #20
    we're here, we steer!! mrRed's Avatar
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    What Track Hubs Are Approved For Radial Lacing?

    just for reference and some more discussion on this topic.
    Culture? Art? Making a difference? Hey, go **** yourself. We're too busy drinking, doing drugs, trying to **** random people and you want us to make money on top of all that? Really?

    Well, ****. I don't give a ****.

  21. #21
    keep it pretend visitordesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travsi
    ...king doesn't, but zipp does!
    phil wood doesn't seem to care either.

  22. #22
    Taking "s" outta "Fast" AfterThisNap's Avatar
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    They say that Chris King will only warranty a radially laced hub if you buy their pink or titanium headsets. The headset bearings are made of contracted NASA meteors and the races are milled from solid bars of gold bullion harvested from pirate shipwrecks off the coast of California. The combination dampens front end vibrations, thus neagating the stressful effects of radial lacing on thier hub flanges.
    Oh, and everytime you buy a CK headset a baby harp seal is saved from murder and an ethnic minority gets the opportunity to go to college.
    Last edited by AfterThisNap; 01-17-06 at 10:48 AM.

  23. #23
    keep it pretend visitordesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AfterThisNap
    They say that Chris King will only warranty a radially laced hub if you buy their pink or titanium headsets. The headset bearings are made of contracted NASA meteors and the cups are milled from solid bars of gold bullion harvested from pirate shipwrecks off the coast of California. The combination dampens front end vibrations, thus neagating the stressful effects of radial lacing on thier hub flanges.
    Oh, and everytime you buy a CK headset a baby harp seal is saved from murder and an ethnic minority gets the opportunity to go to college.

    haha. did you read this?

  24. #24
    likes avocadoes
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    heh, like that info would fit here...
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    Quote Originally Posted by AfterThisNap
    They say that Chris King will only warranty a radially laced hub if you buy their pink or titanium headsets. The headset bearings are made of contracted NASA meteors and the cups are milled from solid bars of gold bullion harvested from pirate shipwrecks off the coast of California. The combination dampens front end vibrations, thus neagating the stressful effects of radial lacing on thier hub flanges.
    Oh, and everytime you buy a CK headset a baby harp seal is saved from murder and an ethnic minority gets the opportunity to go to college.
    coffee on the monitor...thanks...

  25. #25
    downtube shifter Jose R's Avatar
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    Putting aside AfterThisNap's jovial retort, pretty much every hub maker voids the warranty on any of their hubs laced radially, including Shimano. Zipp and PW make beefy hubs for two distinct reasons, my guess: PW for street use and Zipp for radial lacing to their 404? rim. Shimano and Campy designed hubs for track use only.

    Radial does build a stiffer wheel, but not necessarily a stronger wheel than a three crossed wheel. In a cross laced design the load is distributed over all the spokes, thereby relieving pressure on the hub and bearings.

    In a radial laced wheel, the load is placed solely on the hub. So, not only does your hub flange need to be beefier, but so does your bearings housing design.

    In the case the Shimano HB-7600 Hi-Flange hubs, it would seem conterintuitive to add stress not only to the hub flange material (which in the case of 32/36H designs, there isn't much material between holes) but to the bearings themselves. Its just increasing friction, thereby reducing the life of the bearings. Correct? Or am i wrong here. And we buy these hubs for their smoothness, right?

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