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  1. #1
    loves living in the city. Ira in Chi's Avatar
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    old dura-ace track cranks

    Does anyone have/use these? I don't have a picture, but they are almost a copy of the old Campy ones(suprise). I have a set that I've been using for a couple years, and that I know are at least 10 years old, if not more. The tapers still look square, and I have done the usual trouble shooting(grease, examine bb, check chairing bolts), but I get an annoying creak whenever I trackstand on them. This is the only time I notice it, no noises while riding. The other thing is that they don't really fit on a 110 bb. This leads me to believe that the tapers are slightly stretched or deformed, because the back of the chainring bolt touches my chain stay when they are tightened down.

    What I'm looking for is someone with actually knowledge of or experiece with this equiptment, or cranks like them. Any takers?

  2. #2
    Frankly, Mr. Shankly absntr's Avatar
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    I believe dolface might be able to help you here.

  3. #3
    Iguana Subsystem dolface's Avatar
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    sorry, i don't have mine anymore.
    fwiw, the ones that came on the masi were on a 111.5mm avocet spindle (stamped 2 -70) that was mounted w/ ofmega cups.

  4. #4
    loves living in the city. Ira in Chi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolface
    sorry, i don't have mine anymore.
    fwiw, the ones that came on the masi were on a 111.5mm avocet spindle (stamped 2 -70) that was mounted w/ ofmega cups.
    see that is awesome. exactly the kind of info I was looking for, bike forums delivers. approximatly what year was the masi?

  5. #5
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    You may have a couple different things going on here.

    First, about the BB length. It's actually pretty difficult to deform the cranks enough so they actually move farther onto the bottom bracket (more common is that they don't sit square any longer, so the chainring veers in and out as you rotate the cranks). You may have a mismatch between axle and crank. These cranks were made in both ISO and JIS standards (which differed in the angle and precise dimensions of the taper on the spline). The cranks weren't marked as to the correct taper and most bottom bracket axles weren't either (you usually had to depend on the brand to tell you, but even that didn't often work). Anyway, if your cranks are sitting straight so the chainring runs in a straight line, it's easily fixed. You can get a bottom bracket spacer ring in various thicknesses (0.5 mm up to 3 or 5 mm) from a bike shop (it happens to be the same diameter as spacers for your rear hub cog, so a couple extras in your bag will always help with fixing chain line on a new hub). You'll remove the right bottom bracket cup and reinstall it with the spacer in place. The left cup will typically have several millimeters of extra threading beyond the lockring, so you can add spacers up to the amount of threading you have available. If you by any chance start having your left crank arm hit the left chainstay, then you will unfortunately have to get a longer bottom bracket, but this isn't normally the case. Do note: If you've pushed your chainring out farther, be sure that your chainline is still good -- you don't want to fix one problem and have your chain want to come off. You might have to use another spacer between your rear cog and your hub to keep the chain running straight.

    In the off-chance you need a new bottom bracket, you'll have to identify whether your crankarms are in fact ISO or JIS, and whether your bottom bracket axle was mismatched. A good machine shop will have templates for measuring which angle of taper you have, but don't expect a bike shop to do it. The simplest way to get a JIS bottom bracket in a longer length, if you need one, is to call Phil Wood and talk to Brent. He can give you just about anything you need. They aren't cheap, but they're guaranteed to be the last bottom bracket you ever need, and indeed the last one you'll ever have to service again.

    About the creaking: Are you standing in trackstands? I ask because this is an odd time to get creaks if you're sitting. As you probably know, creaks can come from all parts of the bike and will often appear to be coming from other places. If you're sitting, I'd focus on your saddle and your seat post-to-saddle clamp (a little grease on the saddle clamp might make it go away). If you're standing, it could be your bars or levers, or even more likely in your cleats (since you're putting more weight on them and probably twisting them just a little bit as you stand). I assume your chain is clean and lubricated, so it isn't just squeaking from accumulated grime and dryness.

  6. #6
    Iguana Subsystem dolface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ira in Chi
    see that is awesome. exactly the kind of info I was looking for, bike forums delivers. approximatly what year was the masi?
    '86, california-built, italian threaded

  7. #7
    loves living in the city. Ira in Chi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11.4
    You may have a couple different things going on here...
    Thanks for the input. Just when I think BF has gone to crap, you guys come through for me! I'm gonna spend some time in the shop this weekend and I bet I'll have this sorted out by Monday.

  8. #8
    robots in disguise beppe's Avatar
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    11.4, dude, you rock.

  9. #9
    Rising sun on Keirin rider Tomity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ira in Chi
    Does anyone have/use these? I don't have a picture, but they are almost a copy of the old Campy ones(suprise). I have a set that I've been using for a couple years, and that I know are at least 10 years old, if not more. The tapers still look square, and I have done the usual trouble shooting(grease, examine bb, check chairing bolts), but I get an annoying creak whenever I trackstand on them. This is the only time I notice it, no noises while riding. The other thing is that they don't really fit on a 110 bb. This leads me to believe that the tapers are slightly stretched or deformed, because the back of the chainring bolt touches my chain stay when they are tightened down.

    What I'm looking for is someone with actually knowledge of or experiece with this equiptment, or cranks like them. Any takers?
    This is old D/A model
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ira in Chi
    Does anyone have/use these?
    What I'm looking for is someone with actually knowledge of or experiece with this equiptment, or cranks like them. Any takers?
    Here:
    Just one more thing regarding previous answers - the taper angle is the same for JIS and ISO, it is the width which is different.

  11. #11
    make way for the MGL MLPROJECT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vobopl
    Here:
    Just one more thing regarding previous answers - the taper angle is the same for JIS and ISO, it is the width which is different.
    what bike is this?

  12. #12
    re:member
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    My humble conversion (now being converted farther). FGG #2402

  13. #13
    make way for the MGL MLPROJECT's Avatar
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    nice... i have that affinity for bent seat tubes

  14. #14
    loves living in the city. Ira in Chi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomity
    This is old D/A model
    Those are the ones I have. Other than this issue, I really like them. Sunday I put spacers on the bb and hub, safely moving the chainring out a couple milimeters and maintaining the chainline (addressing the first problem, not being able to fully tighten the cranks w/o chainring nearly touching the chainstay). Then I tightened the cranks very securely, and hopped on the bike- still creaking! Not as bad, but it was still there. It is a very small sound, just a "crick" when I put all of my weight on one crank or the other. When I am sprinting really hard I don't hear it, but when trackstanding it is there. I haven't determined which taper my cranks are, but that is the next step.

  15. #15
    like, really sloppy sloppy robot's Avatar
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    how are these cranks.. and what size chainring do they take? I have a set that looks brand new and ive never used...thanksss yall

  16. #16
    Iguana Subsystem dolface's Avatar
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    they're good cranks. the bcd is MOST likely 151bcd, but measure to be sure.

  17. #17
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    I will PM you the results since I have them and a 110 mm BB. I will but them on a frame to see the results.

    S/F,
    CEYA!

  18. #18
    dead mileage techone's Avatar
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    The one's I had/have* were 151bcd, but some 144bcd also passed through my possession very briefly. Proper BB spindle is 109mmJIS.

    *still have the driveside, non-DS cracked around the BB spindle. Still have the BB as well, hopefully I can find somebody with a spare non-drive crankarm...(wishful thinking, I know.)
    un por ciento...

  19. #19
    asleep at the wheel fixedpip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ira in Chi
    It is a very small sound, just a "crick" when I put all of my weight on one crank or the other. When I am sprinting really hard I don't hear it, but when trackstanding it is there. I haven't determined which taper my cranks are, but that is the next step.
    Have you checked for play in the BB or swapped the pedals out? Both of these can be the source of annoying clicks/creaks.

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