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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 02-20-06, 04:32 PM   #1
brunop
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why are johnny coast bikes relatively inexpensive?

so i'm at trackstar today just messin' around and there's a coast frame hangin' there and the price was under a grand for frame and fork (granted this one didn't have a fancy paintjob). i'm lookin' round and decidin' what custom steel frame to get and i like independent fabs and have been lookin' at them as well and they are around $1800 and i think don walker's bikes are around that or a little more and vanilla is around there as well pricewise. s

so what up? aren't they all handbuilt of basically the same tubing? why does a coast cost substantially less?
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Old 02-20-06, 04:34 PM   #2
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He's newer and less known.
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Old 02-20-06, 04:35 PM   #3
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I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'd guess that:

*Johnny Coast isn't as well known
*Johnny Coast doesn't have as many customers as per the aformentioned point (thus less wait per frame)
*The frame in T* was probably not built to conform to a specific person's body so is less "custom"
*The frame in T* may have been made out of a lesser quality tubing (relatively speaking)
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Old 02-20-06, 04:37 PM   #4
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wouldn't you do the same if you were trying to break into the market?
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Old 02-20-06, 04:37 PM   #5
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Yoshi, Johnny's custom framesets are 950 to start. I'm waiting to put the down payment for one. As far as I'm concerned, it's a great deal and you get to pick from some lugs and dropouts. Local builder and great frames. One more month and I'll be on that list.
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Old 02-20-06, 04:46 PM   #6
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fair enough. is his tubing the extreme highend of say vanilla and indy fab? is the quality comparable?

and, because i KINDA trust the collective wisdom that is this board (really), what would ya'll do--go for a johnny coast or spring for an indy fab? (indy fab's factory is literally a quarter mile from my house in somerville. . .)
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Old 02-20-06, 04:51 PM   #7
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because he is an emerging framebuilder and is trying to establish a name for himself. his bikes are still beautiful and carefully crafted. all tubesets and lugs are designed with the user, including chroming and paintjobs. however, he has less experience than walker, vanilla, i.f., and his frames havent been under champions at the track.

but they have been put to the test thru nyc streets and a 3200mi rome-paris tour, including all the sections of the paves of paris-roubaix. (a sunday in hell, anyone?)

coast cycles #4, my brown trackbike


and brunop - you dont think that olive green "hetchins" copy trackframe with gold flake was fancy? i think its a pretty classy job. one day talking about it with zack he described it as "an experience, not a color". had me cracking up.
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Old 02-20-06, 04:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunop
is his tubing the extreme highend of say vanilla and indy fab? is the quality comparable?
well its not his tubing. its Columbus', Dedacciai's, Reynolds', Zona's tubing. or whatever kind you want. with the butted ends cut as per how stiff you want your frame. yes, the quality is comparable.
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Old 02-20-06, 04:57 PM   #9
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I thought that green frame in ts was gorgeous. stachemaster, now I know who you are, didn't realize it till now. I say go for it brunop, support a local builder. What kind of tubing does vanilla use? If you ask johnny, I'm sure he'll accomodate you with the tubeset of your choice. He's very helpful when I talked to him and had him measure me up. Send him an email and see what your options are.
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Old 02-20-06, 05:01 PM   #10
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tubing is completely negligible in this equation. none of those builders build out of anything special unless you pay extra for it, same as most any custom builder.

$950 for a custom frame from someone with his experience is just about right. you are taking a giant risk compared to someone like sachs.
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Old 02-20-06, 05:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wangster
stachemaster, now I know who you are, didn't realize it till now.
i thought you knew i dj'ed under this moniker, b****. i'll be excited to see your jc frame finished.
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Old 02-20-06, 05:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobs
tubing is completely negligible in this equation. none of those builders build out of anything special unless you pay extra for it, same as most any custom builder.

$950 for a custom frame from someone with his experience is just about right. you are taking a giant risk compared to someone like sachs.
your right about the tubing, but the second part... giant risk? Your exagerating. Sure he doesn't have as many frames under his belt, but that doesn't mean that they aren't high quality, and there have been enough to know that they are great frames and I think it's a deal right now before he gets more popular. What about Johnny frames? We all know he builds a great frame, but he hasn't be around a long time in the grand scheme of things either. More than coast, but much less than Sachs. Are people taking a risk there too?
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Old 02-20-06, 06:04 PM   #13
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is trckstar still under renovation? last time i was in there the place was being worked on. i need to swing by there soon. also 950 for a custom seems like an amazing deal. if i had known it was that price, i would have waited and gotten one for my next build. his bikes look great.
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Old 02-20-06, 06:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wangster
your right about the tubing, but the second part... giant risk? Your exagerating. Sure he doesn't have as many frames under his belt, but that doesn't mean that they aren't high quality, and there have been enough to know that they are great frames and I think it's a deal right now before he gets more popular. What about Johnny frames? We all know he builds a great frame, but he hasn't be around a long time in the grand scheme of things either. More than coast, but much less than Sachs. Are people taking a risk there too?
I'm not saying Johnny Coast's frames aren't great, I'm just saying he hasn't got the experience to back that kind of reputation.

With a Sachs you KNOW you are getting one of the best frames you could ever get, and it will last you a lifetime. So you pay for it. It's far from impossible for a bike with a poorly mitered joint to break after a few thousand miles. It is however, completely impossible to see a mistake like that until after it breaks and you dissect the joint.

I 100% back supporting small, new framebuilders such as Johnny Coast, or myself, whoever. With enough support maybe we can all charge $2400 a frame and have 3 year waiting lists.
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Old 02-20-06, 07:03 PM   #15
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Rock Lobster is around $950 as well, and Kalavinka is what, $1200? There are numerous custom makers out there that'll build you a frame for around a grand. Sachs and Nagasawa are the exception, not the rule.
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Old 02-20-06, 07:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stachemaster
because he is an emerging framebuilder and is trying to establish a name for himself. his bikes are still beautiful and carefully crafted. all tubesets and lugs are designed with the user, including chroming and paintjobs. however, he has less experience than walker, vanilla, i.f., and his frames havent been under champions at the track.

but they have been put to the test thru nyc streets and a 3200mi rome-paris tour, including all the sections of the paves of paris-roubaix. (a sunday in hell, anyone?)

coast cycles #4, my brown trackbike


and brunop - you dont think that olive green "hetchins" copy trackframe with gold flake was fancy? i think its a pretty classy job. one day talking about it with zack he described it as "an experience, not a color". had me cracking up.

hey were you in richmond for best friends day this past year with your trailer? If so I met you!
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Old 02-20-06, 07:36 PM   #17
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My Mercian is going to be ~900 shipped from the UK, granted it's only in Reynolds 631. Perfectly custom with a gorgeous paint job and done in a way that hasn't changed in 60 years.
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Old 02-20-06, 07:41 PM   #18
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haha it always cracks me up when i hear random people talk about best friends day.

Coast, Jonny Cycles, and Circle A all start right around the same place for a frame and fork. Jonny is around $1200 for a lugged frame and fork. Circle A is around $800 i think for a welded frame, and around $1100 for a fully lugged.
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Old 02-20-06, 08:32 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by nine
is trckstar still under renovation? last time i was in there the place was being worked on. i need to swing by there soon. also 950 for a custom seems like an amazing deal. if i had known it was that price, i would have waited and gotten one for my next build. his bikes look great.
renovation looks pretty complete. trackstar gettin' all up in dat! ya'll bettah know dat!!

from what ya'll sayin' (good advice and comments all actually, i'm leanin' towards indy fab as they are more local to me as i spend more time in boston. maybe i'll kick myself though someday for not gettin' a coast while they're relatively cheap. and vanilla are definitely sex, but portland's just too far away. who knows?)

word.
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Old 02-20-06, 08:46 PM   #20
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renovations done, the only construction is brad drilling holes in the walls indiscrimately trying to mount hardware. The store feels nice, very open now and spacious.

brunop, IF's are nice, good luck with that. We'll compare your IF and my coast when we get it and have a side by side comparason.
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Old 02-20-06, 08:51 PM   #21
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i should have my new coast in about 3 weeks, if all goes as planned.
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Old 02-20-06, 08:55 PM   #22
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you suck... thats pretty quick, 3 months?
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Old 02-20-06, 10:53 PM   #23
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I really do love jonnycylces bikes. Local-ness definitely comes into play.
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Old 02-20-06, 11:17 PM   #24
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I still say think about what you want in a bike and a frame builder.

IF makes great bikes, there's absolutely no disagreement about that. On the other hand, Jonny probably does a fine job as well, if not so well known.

Above that, though, what are you looking for? Are you interested in lugged or welded? Have you talked to either builder to find out what makes their frames unique? Is it important to you that if you have something that doesn't seem right with your frame, you can just swing by the shop some night and have the guys who built it take a look? Does supporting the local builder mean something to you?

While we're at it, I'll put in a plug for Mike Flanigan of ANT Bikes. Mike was IF's original welder and painter and he'll build you just about any frame you'd like from a wide selection of tubing. He'll even do weird stuff like build a 123mm spaced frame if you beg hard enough (I backed off that one though). His prices aren't as cheap as Jonny's but far less than an IF.
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Old 02-20-06, 11:38 PM   #25
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With enough support maybe we can all charge $2400 a frame and have 3 year waiting lists.
w/r/t Sachs, I think you got the 2 and the 4 backwards...
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