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  1. #1
    vegan straightedge
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    wheelbuilding help

    hey, i'm building my wheel right now and i have a few questions.
    what side of the flange is my key spoke suppose to run on?
    also, is it crucial to have 2 over and one under for the 3 cross? or can i do 2 under and one over?

    if someone wants to help me out, please im me (if i exploded = my screenname)

  2. #2
    team mascot sr20det's Avatar
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    1) key spoke, I like the run mine with the spoke head on the flange side closest to you. I don't think it really matters.
    btw, I also don't really use the key spoke method either as I wansn't taught that way.
    2) just stick with a normal 3 cross for your first one. and... i've really never heard of 2 under and 1 over, guess people don't do it cause its weird.
    3) also if you screw up. IMMEDIATELY undo the wrong parts and start again, don't stubbornly forge ahead.
    4)take a it slow and easy, and do NOT lace/true wheels if your drunk or not in the mood.
    that really helps.
    Last edited by sr20det; 02-24-06 at 11:05 PM.
    physics hertz.

  3. #3
    The Red Lantern Rev.Chuck's Avatar
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    I don't use the keyspoke method(starting with a full set all crossed) but I do start with the inside spokes first. Much easier lacing. I think it is the same with keyspoking.
    Over the first two and then under. I believe if you look around you will find pics of a guy that laced under at the first crossing and it was torqueing the crap out of the flanges.
    I had some simple build instructions I wrote up, but my computer crashed. They are still on here in the mechanics section somewhere.
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  4. #4
    The Red Lantern Rev.Chuck's Avatar
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    Here it is:
    I never went to a school either, this is how I do it, I also use spoke prep, that is not in the instructions. Also, get a truing stand, even a cheap one makes the job easier and improves odds of a good outcome, look at the Minoura stands, good for the $$, and they have a dish indicator. Get the books to. The Bicycle Wheel, Brandt The Art of Wheel Building, Schraner

    THE CHUCK METHOD:
    I set the hub and rim so the labels read how I want them to, then I insert my first inside spoke to the right of the valve hole. I recheck that all the labels are how I want them then lace the rest of the inside spoke for that side.
    Turn the wheel over. Now I am working to the left of the spoke hole, next to the first inserted spoke. I look down through the hub and insert my next inside spoke in the hole just to the left (opposite flange) of the first inserted spoke. Then do the rest.
    Leaving the wheel in the same postion, drop the outside spokes through the lower flange and twist the hub clockwise (looking from above) Do your cross, looping under the last spoke and insert the spoke into the next hole to the left of the two already inserted. Don't worry about starting next to the valve hole now, just cross three, or two, or whatever and insert into the next hole to the left.
    Flip the wheel over, you are now on the side you started on. Drop the outside spokes through the lower flange and then cross them going to the last open hole in the rim.
    Set all of the nipples so they are level with the top of the threads. I just rest my finger nail against the threads and spin the nipple in until it touches. Sometimes this requires a little leeway. If they start getting tight before you get halfway around the rim, loosen all the tightened ones a full turn, then continue around leaving a little thread showing. The idea is to get the starting position as equal as possible.
    Take your nipple driver or a round screwdriver and go between each crossing pair pulling down towards the hub. This helps align the spokes and takes out some of the spring making the truing easier.
    Starting at the valve hole, tighten each nipple a half to a full turn, depending on how tight the spokes are to start with. Do this as many times as you need to get some (not a lot) tension in the wheel. When you turn the nipples keep them square to the rim, it makes it a lot easier to keep track of the amount you have turned them rather than having them all askew.
    Now the wheel should be pretty round and true, unless you are using a beat rim(In which case you need to slap yourself and go get a new rim)
    Check for true, adjust(working in pairs) and check a couple of times. Then go all the way around the wheel turning each nipple a quarter turn. (The square to the rim thing comes in real handy now) Check true again. Do this a couple of times to build a little tension into the wheel.
    Now check for round, hopefully the wheel is not finish tension yet (That means don't get carried away with the previous step) If the wheel is out(It will be) pull the hop in by tightening spokes in pairs. If it is a long hop you can tighten up to four spokes. You will need to tighten them between a half and a full turn to make a noticeable change (Unless the hop is very minor) Spin the wheel, check and repeat. You may have a little hop at the seam, don't worry about it to much, this is a real stiff point and often you cannot get it perfect here.
    Now you start stress relieving. I do it by holding the wheel like a steering wheel, pulling it up against my forearms and bracing it against my stomach. Once in this position pull towards your head with your hands. You are flexing the part of the rim you are holding against you forearms and stomach. Do this every couple of spokes all the way around the wheel. NOT TO HARD You will hear/feel the spokes ping.
    Now go back to trueing for a turn or two continuing to up your tension a quarter turn all the way around, then back to checking round.
    Soon you should be up to finish tension and the wheel should be round and pretty true. At this point you can turn the nipples less than a quarter turn or even turn only one (GASP) if you need to nudge the rim just a tiny little bit. Don't forget to stress relieve a bunch at this point, do it every couple of corrections

    This the way of doing wheels I have developed, the books say a little different, but I find this method to build a good solid wheel with out a bunch of time screwing around. The only problem is that it is very easy to make a mistake when lacing if you do not pay attention. It won't show until you start getting the wheel tight. So be careful
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  5. #5
    team mascot sr20det's Avatar
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    yea. I do it exactly like chuck's method.
    I like it cause its methodical and logical.
    also a few more tips.

    1) I drew on my table edge 36 evenly spaced lines. so I just take all my nipples and set them up (with the head on the table and threads facing up) and put each one on a line. then I just dab a drop of oil in each one.
    that way i don't need to count and they are easily accessible.

    2) For rims w/o eyelets, I use an thin awl. I spear the nipple with the awl and insert the nipple into the rim. and then use the nipple wrench.
    this helps ensure that the nipples don't fall into the rim. which sucks.

    ALSO assuming this is your first time. once your done, CHECK that one spoke is coming from one flange and the spokes beside it are coming from the other flanges.
    the spokes should come from alternating flanges.

    You know you screwed up if you see that some spokes that are side by side are coming from the same flange.
    physics hertz.

  6. #6
    MADE IN HONG KONG
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    Starting from the inside (spoke head on outside) is definitely easier.
    I like threading my spokes one at a time (its part of the therapy)
    Using the key spoke does help align that valve stem in a convient spot (if that is important to you... or not)

    if the outside set of spokes is 2 over 1 under, isn't the inside set 2 under 1 over?

    checking my spoke, I can hardly believe the twisting that will be necessary to go 2 under 1 over from the outside. darn, that will be so hard! would be interesting to see

    btw: there are people out there lacing 3X with all spokes on the outside! wierd
    If you are not having any fun, it's all your fault

  7. #7
    vegan straightedge
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    ok so i think i did it backwards. i did one side completely, then moved to the other side. right now i'm putting the spokes through the flange (going into it) and the spoke is running along the inside of the flange (meaning it's a pain in the ass). i'm having a hard time getting them all to thread (not reaching) and i'm really worried that my spokes aren't long enough (although i used a reliable spoke calculator). i've got a high flange phil hub being laced to some aeroheads and my spoke length is 288. also, DT Competition spokes are pretty crappy and feel like plastic.

    i think i'm gonna try for 10 minutes, and if it's not working i'm gonna undo it all and re-lace them doing 1/2 on one side (with the spokes running along the inside of the flange), 1/2 on the other side (spokes running along the inside of the flange), finishing the other side (spokes running on the outside of the flange), and finish the other side the same way. unless someone can convince me on here that it doesn't matter. so stressful!

  8. #8
    MADE IN HONG KONG
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    calm down, don't panic, IMHO, the difference between running your leading or trailing spokes on the inside or outside is relatively moot. think of what happens if you have a flip flop hub. you can replace a single spoke on a finished wheel, so it will all work out, you can thread them all!
    Last edited by poopncow; 02-24-06 at 11:58 PM.
    If you are not having any fun, it's all your fault

  9. #9
    MADE IN HONG KONG
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    dude, how many turns did you put in the nips? a couple of turns is all you should have until all the spokes are in. And yes, it gets harder as more spokes are added. Once they are all in, you will be fine
    If you are not having any fun, it's all your fault

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