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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 03-07-06, 02:26 PM   #1
teadoggg
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Formula / Nashbar / IRO axle compatibility?

Before I make some calls, I though I'd ask here so if anyone else has this delimia information is on record.

I have a Nashbar track hub, rear. I want to get a longer axle so I can use it on my 130mm spaced On One il Pompino. I was going to just get a longer axle from Formula/iro/whatever, but a friend brought up an interesting point - will it work? Are the spaces between the cartridge bearings the same? The hub body may dictate otherwise...

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of this - or have a IRO/Formula/etc axle that they could take measurements of for me?
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Old 03-07-06, 02:34 PM   #2
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my thinking is that it would work....coz alll of the mentioned hubs are formula. the same exact thing.
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Old 03-07-06, 02:36 PM   #3
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ah, young grasshopper but they're not. The nashbars are definitely different. IRO/Formulas are the same though, i believe. This has been covered ad nasuem, but it's not applicable to me in this instance.
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Old 03-07-06, 02:36 PM   #4
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I can take mine apart and do some measuring if you can explain better what you are trying to figure out.
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Old 03-07-06, 02:44 PM   #5
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have you taken it apart yet? The designs are identical, as in the hub body doesn't really have any effect on wheter or not the axle will fit. The locknuts and cartridge bearing seats are moveable, and the bearings are the same, so if it doens't fit by default it won't be hard to readjust the spacing a bit.
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Old 03-07-06, 02:46 PM   #6
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I think the nashbars may be dimensions.
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Old 03-07-06, 02:50 PM   #7
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I don't know if they are identical - that's what I'm looking to confirm/deny.

Clarification - if you take out the axle and look at it, you'll see a lip on either side - this is the innermost part where the inside edge of the cartridge bearing backs onto. I'm not sure if this measurement is the same. If the hub is slightly more wide/narrow, these edges could be further apart or closer together. Get me? I know the axle will "fit", but it needs to "fit" in the way that everything presses together with no gaps/spaces. While the IRO/Formulas are identical, the nashbar hubs (the actual hubs made/branded by nashbar, not the Formula ones that Nashbar sells) are a little different.
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Old 03-07-06, 02:51 PM   #8
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nashbar's aren't formulas (unless you're talking about the formula/cpx22 wheelset that nashbar sold at one point)
the nashbar-branded hubs are novatec/joytech.
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Old 03-07-06, 02:51 PM   #9
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when i told Tony i was going to use his hub on a 130mm spaced drop out he swapped the axel for a longer one and put spacers between the cone and the lock nut. i don't know if this is what you mean.
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Old 03-07-06, 02:56 PM   #10
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This effects me too. For Archana's bike, BadAssBiker has offered a Nashbar rear. The spacing of the crosscheck is 132.5 though. Hrmmm...
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Old 03-07-06, 02:58 PM   #11
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so the nashbars use an aluminum axle? thought the nuts and bearing seats were moveable. I still think it will fit. The hub shell locates the bearings, the locknuts and bearing seats hold them in place. It's a real hard design to mess up.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:00 PM   #12
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i think he just wants to know the length of axle between the seating lips.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:01 PM   #13
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the hubshell is only part of what locates the bearings - the lip on the axle is the other half of what matters.

see images - this is what i'm looking for:
[p]
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Old 03-07-06, 03:01 PM   #14
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I just disassembled my rear Formula hub and made some measurements.

the outside to outside measurement of the bearing seat shoulders is 78.25mm on my axle. The bearing surface on the axle is 9.99mm and the bearings are 8.0mm wide and 26.0mm outside diameter.

My axle measures 48.3mm from the bearing shoulder to the tip of the threading. I'm pretty sure my axles are longer than necessary to accomodate respacing. The hubs came as a wheelset laced to Mavic CXP-22s from Nashbar recently.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:05 PM   #15
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Thanks MacG. I assume by "shoulder" you mean the edge of the flare on the axle, as i've circled, correct?

the reason this is important is if on my replacement axle, that distance is longer, my bearings won't seat properly inside the hub body. if it's too short, it's causing unnessasary stress on the bearings, which is bad, 'cause these are my $20/pair super amazing cartridge bearings.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:07 PM   #16
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for those of you who are fuzzy on this - if you ordering a longer axle, the part that is longer is the threaded part, FWIW. The inner dimensions are the same.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:11 PM   #17
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yup. that's the measurement from one side to the other measured at the points where the side of the bearing's inner race stops against the shoulder on the axle.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:13 PM   #18
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do you just pound the axle out with a hammer?
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Old 03-07-06, 03:13 PM   #19
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Sweet, thanks so much! As soon as I have access to a caliper I'll measure mine and report back here with my findings. If I can get a longer axle for this, it saves me having to build another rear wheel and enables me to use one I already have.

I owe you a beer when you're in Chicago, Mac. Also, Red Green ****ing rocks.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baxtefer
do you just pound the axle out with a hammer?
yeah, take all the hardware off and that's pretty much what I do. Well, I use a hard rubber mallet.

they make tools for all this stuff, but i've never had a problem with the mallet method. I also grease the inside of the shell the bearings press into to make life easier when I want to bang them back out. Seems to help substancially.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:25 PM   #21
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I just removed the locknut, spacer, and axle nut with cone wrenches and then tapped on the end of the axle with a plastic hammer and the bearing on the other side slides out quite nicely.

I'll reassemble it by greasing the contact surfaces lightly and using the axle to align the bearing while I tap it back in. You should only ever take one bearing out at a time if at all possible so you can use the other one and the axle to make sure you reinsert the bearing aligned properly. Without having this cheat method available (if you took both bearings out), you pretty much need a bearing press to safely press bearings into place. It's way too easy to press them in crooked and damage stuff if you don't have any way of holding the bearing exactly perpendicular to the hub shell.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacG
. Without having this cheat method available (if you took both bearings out), you pretty much need a bearing press to safely press bearings into place. It's way too easy to press them in crooked and damage stuff if you don't have any way of holding the bearing exactly perpendicular to the hub shell.
Wow you guys are paranoid. Tolerances on bike parts aren't that exact, and even if they were, none are press fit (i.e. 2.000 in bearing in a 1.998 in hole) where a press would be necessary.
Have you ever seen a hub assembly line? Lots of rubber mallets, very little precision.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:41 PM   #23
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Not paranoid, just a perfectionist to a fault. These are also brand new hubs, so I'd rather be safe than sorry, but your mileage will probably vary.
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Old 03-07-06, 03:46 PM   #24
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from Sheldon/Harris: "These hubs are made by Formula, but I.R.O. gets them with a longer rear axle than Formula normally uses. The I.R.O. axles long enough to add spacers for any frame spacing from 120 up to 130 mm."

My IRO's have 8mm of axle sticking out of the nuts on each side in a 130mm frame, you could mount BMX pegs on those suckers and still be fine. [eyes bin of old BMX parts, decides that's probably not a good way to die]

I ordered them spaced 126 because I mesure gud (swapped out the spacers when they got here), so I'm assuming Tony used the aforementioned longer axle as this axle would _be_ BMX pegs in a 120.
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Old 03-07-06, 05:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teadoggg
if it's too short, it's causing unnessasary stress on the bearings, which is bad, 'cause these are my $20/pair super amazing cartridge bearings.
Did you get Phil Spec'ds, or some kind of hifalutin ceramics? I'm looking to upgrade some formulas and would love a report on doing so.
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