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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 03-08-06, 10:48 AM   #1
recursive
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Slowly rotating while trackstanding at a light

OK, when I'm trackstanding at a red light (I actually wait for greens) with my left foot forward, over the course of a minute, on average, I end up pointing like 30 degrees left of where I started. I try to counteract this by going in to the stand facing slightly right, but sometimes I end up turning like 45 degrees counterclockwise which can be a problem if there are other vehicles nearby. Anyone else get this? Is it just a skill I need to learn to trackstand without slowly rotating?

Also, unrelated, are people's dominant trackstand and skid foot correlated? I tend to skid with my left foot back, but stand with my left foot forward. I think it looks pretty badass to skid directly into a trackstand without moving the pedals at all, but alas, I need to become a little more ambipedextrous to pull it off consistently.

Thoughts anyone?
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Old 03-08-06, 10:56 AM   #2
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If I start moving during a trackstand, I will rock back a little and then move back to where I was originally. That usually fixes it.

Also, I skid with my right foot back but trackstand with the right foot forward and the wheel turned to the right.
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Old 03-08-06, 11:04 AM   #3
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I have the same problem. What causes it is I tend to straighten out the bars when I am putting more back pressure on the pedals.

I skid right foot forward, and trackstand left-foot forward. We could just say that I skid goofy and trackstand regular, to apply the skate/snowboard convention.
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Old 03-08-06, 11:07 AM   #4
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I can only really trackstand well with my right foot forward, but I can skid almost anywhere in the rotation, and I regularly do.
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Old 03-08-06, 11:19 AM   #5
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I skid with my right back, and trackstand the same way. I can't stand for crap with my right forward.
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Old 03-08-06, 11:31 AM   #6
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During the monstertrack trackstand competition, I ended up turning over Pi/2 radians by the end. Of course they were doing 5 minute intervals so this was after over 15 minutes of trackstanding.
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Old 03-08-06, 11:44 AM   #7
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Hey, it happens. If you can work yourself backwards, you'll be fine. I can skid and trackstand with either foot forward, but I can hold the stand longer with my right foot. To borrow from trials, my "choco" foot is my right foot, but not the case when I'm on a coastie bike. I'm weird.
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Old 03-08-06, 11:52 AM   #8
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skid with either foot (dominant is right) but I trackstand with my left foot forward
any tips on trackstanding with the right forward, i just can't seem to do it
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Old 03-08-06, 12:16 PM   #9
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Try not to over correct. Just move an inch forward and back. When you go to far forward, just let yourself roll back. I can usually do this for about half a turn when I go to far when stopping quickly, usually in traffic.

Also, it helps to learn to track stand with the your pedals 10-3, 11-5, 8-2, 7-1 o'clock. Left foot forward.
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Old 03-08-06, 12:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recursive
I think it looks pretty badass to skid directly into a trackstand without moving the pedals at all

Thoughts anyone?
Yeah I like the looks I get when I do it. It's the jam.
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Old 03-08-06, 01:22 PM   #11
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I can stand very well and easily with left foot forward and wheel to the left and I'm ok at doing it right foot forward and wheel to the left, but the for the life of me I can not do either foot forward with the wheel turning right.
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Old 03-08-06, 01:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recursive
I think it looks pretty badass to skid directly into a trackstand without moving the pedals at all
i prefer the skid to a stop, backwards 360, stop in a trackstand, myself.
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Old 03-08-06, 01:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
...I ended up turning over Pi/2 radians by the end.
great use of radians. they are an underused measure of angle.

also the skidding and trackstanding that i can do, i do with my left foot forward.
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Old 03-08-06, 01:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endform
... I'm ok at doing it right foot forward and wheel to the left, ...
I have so much toe overlap on my fix, I could never hope to do this. It used to bother me, but now I think I like the handling characteristics.
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Old 03-08-06, 01:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunning
i prefer the skid to a stop, backwards 360, stop in a trackstand, myself.
Of course I would too, if I could do it. Only I would be doing a no-hand wheelie stand.
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Old 03-08-06, 01:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recursive
Anyone else get this? Is it just a skill I need to learn to trackstand without slowly rotating?
I used to rotate a lot, but now I hardly rotate at all. I think it just takes practice. My theory is that the rotation is due to not cocking the wheel far enough to one side quickly enough. I've observed a few of my friends learning how to trackstand, and they invariably don't turn the wheel sharp enough. This is because it's hard to turn the wheel sharply when simultaneously trying to slow to a stop. It's hard because you're trying to optimize three variables at once: wheel angle, forward velocity, and crank position. Therefore, the method that most people adopt is to make a sharp turn while slowing down; this will both slow one down and concurrently cock the wheel to one side. However, I believe this turning technique will result in the rotation you're talking about. I think the trick is to practice slowing to a stop in a straight line and immediately (as quickly as possible) cocking the wheel to one side (about 45 degrees from center). Keeping one's balance while cocking the wheel is key, and that's what takes practice. Once you get the timing right and you're able to end up in the correct crank position (i.e. cranks parallel to the ground), then you're set. I hope that helps...
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Old 03-08-06, 01:56 PM   #17
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sometimes i'll hop my rear wheel to bring my cranks into a more comfortable (dominant foot higher) position. but that takes some practice.

think of trackstanding not as staying still, but as keeping opposing forces in tension, in equilibrium. there will be a consant give-and-take--i'm usually rocking back and forth, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot.

but mostly it's practice. on your way home today, just noodle around for ten minutes before you go inside. then do that every day for several months, then you'll be able to do lots of neat stuff
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Old 03-09-06, 01:11 AM   #18
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Better yet, practice on any hard surface in your house while you're watching T.V. or listening to music; pretty soon you'll bre relaxing doing no-handers (thats when you realize that, on a level surface, very little pressure needs to be put on the pedals. Outside of course there are lots of little pebbles and dents in the road that can make standing more of a challenge. Having said all that, even with practice, I can't do **** with the wheel pointing right; but pointing left either foot will do (but my concentration is always on my left foot, even if it is in the back position.)
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Old 03-09-06, 03:11 AM   #19
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i cant trackstand for **** and i have been riding my track bike for years. luckily in fl it doesnt matter. ill be in bk for a couple months. im sure ill learn out of neccessity.
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Old 03-09-06, 07:28 AM   #20
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after reading this thread yesterday i rode home and tried to be smoothe skidding into a trackstanding, but my foot positions for the two are pretty different, by about 30-45 degrees, that it was kind of uncomfortable trying to backwards-rotate my cranks into trackstanding position at the end of the skid.
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Old 03-09-06, 07:35 AM   #21
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I usually skip to a stand which allows me to easily rotate my cranks into my desired standing position. Skidding/skipping with my feet at any position is really easy at this point.
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Old 03-09-06, 09:54 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntaxPC
I used to rotate a lot, but now I hardly rotate at all. I think it just takes practice. My theory is that the rotation is due to not cocking the wheel far enough to one side quickly enough. I've observed a few of my friends learning how to trackstand, and they invariably don't turn the wheel sharp enough. This is because it's hard to turn the wheel sharply when simultaneously trying to slow to a stop. It's hard because you're trying to optimize three variables at once: wheel angle, forward velocity, and crank position. Therefore, the method that most people adopt is to make a sharp turn while slowing down; this will both slow one down and concurrently cock the wheel to one side. However, I believe this turning technique will result in the rotation you're talking about. I think the trick is to practice slowing to a stop in a straight line and immediately (as quickly as possible) cocking the wheel to one side (about 45 degrees from center). Keeping one's balance while cocking the wheel is key, and that's what takes practice. Once you get the timing right and you're able to end up in the correct crank position (i.e. cranks parallel to the ground), then you're set. I hope that helps...
I appreciate the input, but I don't think this is the only problem. I am certainly better at this than I used to be, but there is at least something else going on because after I'm already doing the stand I'm still slowly rotating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeroplane
I have the same problem. What causes it is I tend to straighten out the bars when I am putting more back pressure on the pedals.
I'm thinking this might be it.
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