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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 03-09-06, 05:10 PM   #1
RedDeMartini
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Should the flaws of Mid-range locks be exposed?

A journalist has done independent tests to review midrange locks, he found many were totally worthless ****. However he is wondering if he ought to publish this and how he detailed he ought to be.

Any thoughts?
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Old 03-09-06, 05:12 PM   #2
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publish 'em.

security through obscurity doesn't work...
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Old 03-09-06, 05:14 PM   #3
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many tests like this have already been published in "Cycling Plus" and "Sold Secure"

allanbikehouston will be along shortly to tell you this.
then he'll say something nice about ABUS locks.
and then say that Bic pen unlocking is a myth.
a flamewar will ensue.
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Old 03-09-06, 05:16 PM   #4
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nothing is more annoying than to hear on a news special something about how "meth can be made using this, this, this, and some common household items"... it's totally better to just broadcast the recipe and step by step cooking instructions.

i guess picking bikelocks is a different thing than meth... i think a certain level of awareness should be published, that way people know what is safe, what isn't safe, and can judge accordingly where/when/how to lock their bikes. crooks adapt anyhow, so the secrets will be old and obsolete in a matter of weeks anyhow as soon as they find a new backdoor to crowbar open.
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Old 03-09-06, 05:16 PM   #5
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publish it...the people who take adavntage of this already know...
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Old 03-09-06, 05:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dolface
security through obscurity doesn't work...
So true. Better to force the hand of the lock makers than have that information be kept secret and shared amongst people who will use it to steal bikes.
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Old 03-09-06, 05:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baxtefer
many tests like this have already been published in "Cycling Plus" and "Sold Secure"

allanbikehouston will be along shortly to tell you this.
then he'll say something nice about ABUS locks.
and then say that Bic pen unlocking is a myth.
a flamewar will ensue.
Hahaha.
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Old 03-09-06, 06:36 PM   #8
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the only problem is that this info won't get to everyone who owns one of those locks. hell, i'm one of the few commuter cyclists i know that reads bike crap on a regular basis. most of them just ride, lock up, and not really think about how easy/hard it is to get into their lock. it'd be kind of ****ty to tell someone how to defeat someone else's lock without the lock-owner really knowing anything about it. of course, not all bike thieves read bike crap on a regular basis either, so i guess it could go either way.

you have to remember that lock companies aren't really like car companies. they aren't sending out massive amounts of mail any time there's a problem with one of their products. if it weren't for the internet, i wouldn't have had any idea about the whole bic pen dealie.
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Old 03-09-06, 07:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by crushkilldstroy
the only problem is that this info won't get to everyone who owns one of those locks. hell, i'm one of the few commuter cyclists i know that reads bike crap on a regular basis. most of them just ride, lock up, and not really think about how easy/hard it is to get into their lock. it'd be kind of ****ty to tell someone how to defeat someone else's lock without the lock-owner really knowing anything about it. of course, not all bike thieves read bike crap on a regular basis either, so i guess it could go either way.

you have to remember that lock companies aren't really like car companies. they aren't sending out massive amounts of mail any time there's a problem with one of their products. if it weren't for the internet, i wouldn't have had any idea about the whole bic pen dealie.
true.
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Old 03-09-06, 07:18 PM   #10
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Definately publish some details but not step by step so he's not publishing a how to book. Just enought to prove it and make people aware.
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Old 03-10-06, 03:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crushkilldstroy
the only problem is that this info won't get to everyone who owns one of those locks. hell, i'm one of the few commuter cyclists i know that reads bike crap on a regular basis. most of them just ride, lock up, and not really think about how easy/hard it is to get into their lock. it'd be kind of ****ty to tell someone how to defeat someone else's lock without the lock-owner really knowing anything about it. of course, not all bike thieves read bike crap on a regular basis either, so i guess it could go either way.

you have to remember that lock companies aren't really like car companies. they aren't sending out massive amounts of mail any time there's a problem with one of their products. if it weren't for the internet, i wouldn't have had any idea about the whole bic pen dealie.
i don't know about that. the kryptonite debacle seemed to blow up pretty big.
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Old 03-10-06, 03:30 AM   #12
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i don't know about that. the kryptonite debacle seemed to blow up pretty big.
and i still see those bic-able kryptos all over the place. i'm sure if people knew about it they wouldn't be using them.
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Old 03-10-06, 03:36 AM   #13
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well thats why the evolution 2000 came with that little plastic collar... it hides the lock hole. DUH!! didnt krypto offer some kind of recall deal to replace the lock system with the one the now use?
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Old 03-10-06, 06:25 AM   #14
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Thought this read "Should the flaws of Middle-Earth locks be exposed?"
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Old 03-10-06, 07:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crushkilldstroy
and i still see those bic-able kryptos all over the place. i'm sure if people knew about it they wouldn't be using them.
Consumer product recalls happen all the time and are never 100% effective. However, once the company says "send 'em back and get 'em replaced", then the burden of responsibility falls on the user. If you use a bike with a bic-able lock and it gets stolen, tough titties.

I'd rather have my bike stolen because I'm an idiot that because the company kept a vital flaw secret from everybody.
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Old 03-10-06, 08:53 AM   #16
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Knowing is half the battle!
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Old 03-10-06, 08:57 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Matthew A Brown
Thought this read "Should the flaws of Middle-Earth locks be exposed?"
you, sir, are a nerd.
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Old 03-10-06, 09:04 AM   #18
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Oh, absolutely. I'm 28 and my mom just sent me a care package with brownies and a Stephen King book, cos I'm back in school now. Moms rule.



Oh and, expose every goddamn flaw in these locks. There's zero corporate motivation to make better locks unless they know their **** won't sell. ****, write Consumer Reports and get it in there. Post a link to the article/vid in the commuting, general, mtb forums, everywhere.
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Old 03-10-06, 09:16 AM   #19
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i love it.
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Old 03-10-06, 10:23 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolface
publish 'em.

security through obscurity doesn't work...
+1

I would take the computer security approach however. Contact the manufacturers first informing them of the weaknesses. If they respond back and are willing to fix them, give them time to do that before publishing it. If they don't respond or don't want to fix it, publish it.

But no matter what, please don't keep it a secret.
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Old 03-10-06, 10:33 AM   #21
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you, sir, are a nerd.
Takes one to know one Mr. aliquid quod maius non cogitari potest. How about semper ubi sub ubi?
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Old 03-10-06, 10:40 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by crushkilldstroy
if it weren't for the internet, i wouldn't have had any idea about the whole bic pen dealie.
Within 2 days of the bic pen discovery here on bikeforums, my local paper [boston globe] had a front page story about it, on one of the inner sections, and they even interviewed/quoted sheldon brown.
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Old 03-10-06, 10:52 AM   #23
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Within 2 days of the bic pen discovery here on bikeforums, my local paper [boston globe] had a front page story about it, on one of the inner sections, and they even interviewed/quoted sheldon brown.
no joke? well good for them. i guarantee the kc star wouldn't ever do anything like that.
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