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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 03-20-06, 12:14 PM   #1
queerpunk
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i'm okay with bike shops charging what they have to charge to keep running, but there are some things, i just don't understand why they cost so much. here's my list so far, and i'd be ammused to see what other people have in mind.

- double straps. $100. they cost, like, 4 times as much as single straps. i'm not very good at math, but it doesn't quite add up to me.
- mks sylvan dust cap. $5. apparently they're 1/3 the price of the whole pedal...?
- that fixed gear 101 booklet ... oh wait, maybe this one is one of the "rare" ones...

(yah, little bit bored at work)
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Old 03-20-06, 12:23 PM   #2
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I really don't get the double strap thing either.
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Old 03-20-06, 12:27 PM   #3
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a good, proper set of single straps should run upwards of $40. x2 would be approximately $80 (which is about what the doubles cost.)
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Old 03-20-06, 12:29 PM   #4
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Decent single straps cost about $50. Doubles are well double so they cost double.

Dust cap seems pricey.

That booklet thing is crazy. Time to start the printer.
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Old 03-20-06, 12:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queerpunk
- mks sylvan dust cap. $5. apparently they're 1/3 the price of the whole pedal...?
Those MKS dustcaps are for suckers like me who have some old suntour pedals missing one dustcap.
Now I have one silver dustcap and one black plastic dustcap.
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Old 03-20-06, 12:32 PM   #6
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campy or campy compatable seatpost binder bolt (non-keyed). $20 at LBS???

i found a place online to get it for $15 but the sugino keyed bolts are like $2 or $3 online and i got one for free from a LBS.
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Old 03-20-06, 12:33 PM   #7
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regarding the dust cap question, It is similar to cars. Consumer Reports did a small research project a number of years back and found out if you bought a Ford Escort piece by piece ( ala Johnny Cash, but without the larceny) it would cost you almost 40k, rather than the MSRP of around 9k. I would assume it would be similar to bike parts as well.
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Old 03-20-06, 12:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmc
campy or campy compatable seatpost binder bolt (non-keyed). $20 at LBS???

i found a place online to get it for $15 but the sugino keyed bolts are like $2 or $3 online and i got one for free from a LBS.
but then you have to file off the key for some bikes.. and they are uglier.. style, yo!

but i agree i was going to post the same piece...even though bikes seem hyped.. in the grand scheme of things.. no one cares, thus making the initial manufacture of less parts more expensive..i dont think the citizenry of china is clamoring for mks dust caps

the fixed book i dont understand.. who is buying those?
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Old 03-20-06, 12:42 PM   #9
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Food stuff is worse.....
10oz of Corn Flakes is about $0.005 but add the
box that costs about .55 to produce and it becomes 2.00 to buy ??
Raman noodles are about the same $0.005 a lb but add the secret
MSG packet and packaging and you can only get 10 for a dollar
Go figure !
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Old 03-20-06, 12:43 PM   #10
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same people spending $30 on the puma dvd
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Old 03-20-06, 12:51 PM   #11
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I'd look at it the other way... Usually compared to the ebay/cl/resale market, the LBS is usually WAY cheaper.

look a the price for pink or green phills online (ebay)
vs
the price for the pink or green phills from a lbs (or even Yojimbo's, and have em shipped)
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Old 03-20-06, 12:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Łem in Pa=-
Food stuff is worse.....
10oz of Corn Flakes is about $0.005 but add the
box that costs about .55 to produce and it becomes 2.00 to buy ??
Raman noodles are about the same $0.005 a lb but add the secret
MSG packet and packaging and you can only get 10 for a dollar
Go figure !
figured: its called "running a business, developing, marketing, storing, distributing and covering everyones insurance on top of it costs money and we still need to make a profit or whats the point"
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Old 03-20-06, 12:55 PM   #13
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i can't believe someone is complaining about the price of ramen noodles
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Old 03-20-06, 12:55 PM   #14
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I'm right there with ya on the dustcaps. Seems like for 5 the least they could do is sell you the pair!

...but I'm probably gonna bite the bullet and buy one anyway because I have a pair of really nice campy pedals missing one dustcap.
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Old 03-20-06, 12:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattface
I'm right there with ya on the dustcaps. Seems like for 5 the least they could do is sell you the pair!

...but I'm probably gonna bite the bullet and buy one anyway because I have a pair of really nice campy pedals missing one dustcap.
ha.. the other point you coudl make is.. why sell them for $2, when people will pay $5? yay, america!
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Old 03-20-06, 01:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiebrannan
i can't believe someone is complaining about the price of ramen noodles
+1
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Old 03-20-06, 01:21 PM   #17
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One of the main problems is the assumption folks make about pricing methods. Too many people assume (incorrectly) that things are priced via a 'Cost Plus' model, where a seller figures out their costs and adds a little margin for running the business, shrinkage, 'profit', etc. In reality, most businesses in most industries price off of a 'Value' method. They charge the price that the market has determined is 'appropriate.' They charge $100 for double straps because people are willing to pay $100 for double straps. It's such a niche market that the cost of tooling, initial production runs, advertising, distribution, etc could never be recouped by another producer in the market even if they could reach a margin cost of $5 per strap.
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Old 03-20-06, 01:28 PM   #18
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shrinkage
:]
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Old 03-20-06, 01:32 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by tehz
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There was an article in Economica some time ago that used the words "shrinkage" and "package" together numerous times...I almost got kicked out of the library.
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Old 03-20-06, 01:45 PM   #20
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I'm done reading bike forums for the day r-dub's post is insightful, and right on - no need to read anything else. Despite the fact that most bike parts have a very low use value, they have an very high exchange value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r-dub
One of the main problems is the assumption folks make about pricing methods. Too many people assume (incorrectly) that things are priced via a 'Cost Plus' model, where a seller figures out their costs and adds a little margin for running the business, shrinkage, 'profit', etc. In reality, most businesses in most industries price off of a 'Value' method. They charge the price that the market has determined is 'appropriate.' They charge $100 for double straps because people are willing to pay $100 for double straps. It's such a niche market that the cost of tooling, initial production runs, advertising, distribution, etc could never be recouped by another producer in the market even if they could reach a margin cost of $5 per strap.
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Old 03-20-06, 01:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r-dub
One of the main problems is the assumption folks make about pricing methods. Too many people assume (incorrectly) that things are priced via a 'Cost Plus' model, where a seller figures out their costs and adds a little margin for running the business, shrinkage, 'profit', etc. In reality, most businesses in most industries price off of a 'Value' method. They charge the price that the market has determined is 'appropriate.' They charge $100 for double straps because people are willing to pay $100 for double straps. It's such a niche market that the cost of tooling, initial production runs, advertising, distribution, etc could never be recouped by another producer in the market even if they could reach a margin cost of $5 per strap.
+1...the only way prices for most items on the market will come down is for people to stop paying those prices. for example, this is where i first realized this: in boise, i tried connecting my laptop to a wireless connection, and it told me i had to pay and subscribe. now, save the arguments about whether that's a good idea or fair or whatever. the thing i realized is that while it seemed ludicrous--i got a laptop specifically to save internet bills and so do a lot of people--it seemed like a bad idea, but if people were willing to pay for it, then the company was going to charge. i'm not sure if it failed, i'm sure it did, but that's when i realized that however stupid and overpriced, there doesn't have to be a reason for high price other than that a company can charge that price and get away with it because people pay the price.

as far as complaining about the price of ramen, i do think it's funny, but not shocking. i mean, sure, it costs a dime, but still...it costs you and me a dime, and the company a miniscule fraction of that. and then it's food. so it becomes principle. companies have people over a barrel with food. who's ready to stop eating? not me. so companies don't have to justify prices with cost, research and development (i think sloppy robot was giving the companies too much benefit of the doubt. they're corporations, for ****'s sake. they **** people in the ass for ****s and giggles) or packaging or whatever. they simply don't have to justify it. they just have to say "do you feel like eating? then pay our prices, inflated or not." the grocery store is the best example of the worst pitfalls of capitalism. be glad you'll be perfectly okay if you don't get those double toe straps.

edit: i guess that last bit got a little ot. the discussion of business and food got me thinking...and while not much of a socialist anymore, i sure do hate capitalism governing who gets to eat and who doesn't. so...soapbox time. sorry.
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Old 03-20-06, 02:06 PM   #22
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Grocery store profit margins are thin. Just saying. Also ramen takes up a lot of space at a grocery store with little to no return in value for the market.
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Old 03-20-06, 02:21 PM   #23
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I was just looking for a set of track nuts today at my LBS and there were Campy ones for something like $32 (apiece), or generics for $2. Blew me away that someone could theoretically spend like $120 on nuts....

Just an observation.
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Old 03-20-06, 02:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celephaiz
Grocery store profit margins are thin.
i dunno, i haven't seen the numbers. as i often do, i was talking in theory, you know? less about numbers, more about ethics, that kind of ****.
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Old 03-20-06, 02:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humancongereel
i dunno, i haven't seen the numbers. as i often do, i was talking in theory, you know? less about numbers, more about ethics, that kind of ****.
not singling you out, just have a lot of family all over the supermarket scene out west. As for the whole thread, there is economic theory behind all commercial prices (i can almost guarentee that). For the people questioning LBS pricing i mean do you see LBS owners and employees making ****loads of money? I sure don't. It has never appeared to be a rackett or cartel to me. I mean bike shops around me tend to cost about the same across the board. If you don't like what a shop costs try another. If it's the same, then you're eitehr dealing with a cartel or a system that makes sense. Start cartel conspiracy theories here:
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