Dangerous without a rear brake?
04-25-06, 05:11 PM
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In conditions like that having your front slip out will cause you to go down more likely than your rear. Rear's a bit easier to recover from, and having the wheel stop suddenly on those surfaces sounds a bit worse than a nice controlled skid to me. Also, tires would make more difference for traction anyway.
I fractured my leg cornering fast on wet leaves, but it was my front that slipped, not my rear. and brakes wouldn't have saved me anyway.
eddie. Im guessing thats 90% as compared to braking normally... the pads have to slow down the wheel, and don't usually stop the wheel outright and force a skid. where as we just stop the wheel dead in the tracks and let the friction of the rubber to the pavement do the rest. But what do I know, I haven't used brakes in a while
I fractured my leg cornering fast on wet leaves, but it was my front that slipped, not my rear. and brakes wouldn't have saved me anyway.
eddie. Im guessing thats 90% as compared to braking normally... the pads have to slow down the wheel, and don't usually stop the wheel outright and force a skid. where as we just stop the wheel dead in the tracks and let the friction of the rubber to the pavement do the rest. But what do I know, I haven't used brakes in a while
04-25-06, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by onetwentyeight
In conditions like that having your front slip out will cause you to go down more likely than your rear. Rear's a bit easier to recover from, and having the wheel stop suddenly on those surfaces sounds a bit worse than a nice controlled skid to me. Also, tires would make more difference for traction anyway.
I fractured my leg cornering fast on wet leaves, but it was my front that slipped, not my rear. and brakes wouldn't have saved me anyway.
eddie. Im guessing thats 90% as compared to braking normally... the pads have to slow down the wheel, and don't usually stop the wheel outright and force a skid. where as we just stop the wheel dead in the tracks and let the friction of the rubber to the pavement do the rest. But what do I know, I haven't used brakes in a while
I fractured my leg cornering fast on wet leaves, but it was my front that slipped, not my rear. and brakes wouldn't have saved me anyway.
eddie. Im guessing thats 90% as compared to braking normally... the pads have to slow down the wheel, and don't usually stop the wheel outright and force a skid. where as we just stop the wheel dead in the tracks and let the friction of the rubber to the pavement do the rest. But what do I know, I haven't used brakes in a while
I am not sure how accurate 90% is but the faster you stop the more your com shifts forward and the more your front wheel is responsible for stopping you. Therefore since skiddinga rear wheel stops you much slower your weight is further over the rear wheel then it would be if you where stopping faster. The difference between whether the friction is between the tire/ground brakepad/rim is only important because the brakepad/rim combo is able to supply alot more friction force then the tire/ground combo.
04-25-06, 05:29 PM
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Ssome tires are better in adverse weather than others. I've been riding all winter through a **** ton of rain on gatorskins with no problems. But on the ultra2000's I was sliding around LOT more. Then theres those green vittorias... Admitedly, theres pretty much no brick roads out here, and no ice, so... My worst crash was on a bike w/ brakes and I'm pretty convinced that every situation I've gone down in would not have been prevented by me having brakes. It doesn't matter how you're stopping if you only have 1/4th of a second to slow from 20 to zero, or when a car comes barelling around a blind corner. Sometimes stopping a la a deer in headlights is worse. I'm glad I can at least hocky stop with a fixed gear to get out of a few sticky situations... Just ride smart.
04-25-06, 05:29 PM
#29
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humancongereel and onetwentyeight please re-read my post...thoroughly.
I never said that fixies are "dangerous". I said that "In the hands (and feet) of the average rider, fixed-gear bikes are not as safe as freewheeled bikes."
It was a simple comparison. Don't infer, extrapolate, assume, converse, convert, or postulate anything else from that. If you misunderstood what you read...read it again, rinse, and repeat.
Volvos are safer than Hundais. That doesn't mean that Hundais are dangerous. It means that....Volvos are safer than Hundais.
There is no f'ing way you or anybody else is gonna convice me that a fixie is just a as safe as any freewheel in the hands of the average rider.
I never said that fixies are "dangerous". I said that "In the hands (and feet) of the average rider, fixed-gear bikes are not as safe as freewheeled bikes."
It was a simple comparison. Don't infer, extrapolate, assume, converse, convert, or postulate anything else from that. If you misunderstood what you read...read it again, rinse, and repeat.
Volvos are safer than Hundais. That doesn't mean that Hundais are dangerous. It means that....Volvos are safer than Hundais.
There is no f'ing way you or anybody else is gonna convice me that a fixie is just a as safe as any freewheel in the hands of the average rider.
04-25-06, 05:30 PM
#30
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You're asking a bunch of fixed gear converts what they think. Of course they'll say you don't need it. That's the thing about the Internet, go to a certain board and it's an echo chamber towards a certain philosophy. Go ask the mtbr.com 29-incher forum about getting a 29-inch bike, they'll tell you it's the best ever. Ask about frame materials, and the retro SS/FG forum will say 'steel is real', and the roadie forum will say 'carbon is it'. Be conscious of that bias.
Personally, being a bit older, and cured of my youthful perception of immortality, I don't buy into the hype. Yes, fixed gears are harder, require far more dexterity and skill to pull off many urban evasion maneuvers, and requires retraining of your instincts. Yes, you need to pay more attention, and that means you have less available for other things, which means you're more likely to make mistakes. (It's called 'cognitive load', feel free to look it up.)
I'd say to ride with both brakes for several months until you've learned exactly what a fixed demands. That's what I'm doing, and based upon some of the panic stops I've had to make, I'm glad I did, and won't be removing my rear brake for now, if ever. Will you absolutely need the rear brake? Maybe, maybe not, but you won't know until later.
Just admit to yourself you want to get rid of it for one reason - style - and go from there.
PS - I don't expect you to listen. Everyone I ride with is 30 or older, and they all laugh at the idea of taking off any brake on an urban bike, fixed or not. The only person I know that goes without a rear brake on a city bike is one of the most talented and experienced riders I know, and even he won't take that bike out for more than a ten mile ride.
Personally, being a bit older, and cured of my youthful perception of immortality, I don't buy into the hype. Yes, fixed gears are harder, require far more dexterity and skill to pull off many urban evasion maneuvers, and requires retraining of your instincts. Yes, you need to pay more attention, and that means you have less available for other things, which means you're more likely to make mistakes. (It's called 'cognitive load', feel free to look it up.)
I'd say to ride with both brakes for several months until you've learned exactly what a fixed demands. That's what I'm doing, and based upon some of the panic stops I've had to make, I'm glad I did, and won't be removing my rear brake for now, if ever. Will you absolutely need the rear brake? Maybe, maybe not, but you won't know until later.
Just admit to yourself you want to get rid of it for one reason - style - and go from there.
PS - I don't expect you to listen. Everyone I ride with is 30 or older, and they all laugh at the idea of taking off any brake on an urban bike, fixed or not. The only person I know that goes without a rear brake on a city bike is one of the most talented and experienced riders I know, and even he won't take that bike out for more than a ten mile ride.
04-25-06, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by onetwentyeight
Ssome tires are better in adverse weather than others. I've been riding all winter through a **** ton of rain on gatorskins with no problems. But on the ultra2000's I was sliding around LOT more. Then theres those green vittorias... Admitedly, theres pretty much no brick roads out here, and no ice, so... My worst crash was on a bike w/ brakes and I'm pretty convinced that every situation I've gone down in would not have been prevented by me having brakes. It doesn't matter how you're stopping if you only have 1/4th of a second to slow from 20 to zero, or when a car comes barelling around a blind corner. Sometimes stopping a la a deer in headlights is worse. I'm glad I can at least hocky stop with a fixed gear to get out of a few sticky situations... Just ride smart.
there is little question that lacking a rear brake is nowhere near as big a safety issue as lacking a front one. Still in the right conditions it can make quite a difference.
04-25-06, 06:08 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by john_and_off
...and the fact that Boston is pretty flat, I should be fine with just a front brake.
04-25-06, 06:46 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by cityraincityst
No rides down summit ave for a while... though those are fun. Oh, how I miss Allston.
04-25-06, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dutret
There is one other issue that noone seems to have brought up. If you ride in crappy weather on crappy surfaces a rear brake will greatly improve saftey. There are situations where you not be able to stop as fast as possible with your front wheel as doing so would cause your it to slide and you to go down. In such circumstances back pressure on the pedals is a really crappy way to stop since it can not be applied evenly and will cause the wheel to slide and make you more likely to go down.
if you ride on surfaces like these regularly you might want to consider dual brakes even on a fixie
-wet brick
-ice
-wet leave covered crap
-sandy roads
if you ride on surfaces like these regularly you might want to consider dual brakes even on a fixie
-wet brick
-ice
-wet leave covered crap
-sandy roads
04-25-06, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by john_and_off
I go to BU - always nice to meet other Bostonians!
it's my opinon that a rear brake is completely unnecessary, and that a front brake is useful in certain situations. as you get used to riding fixed, you'll probably find that appropriately controlling your speed using only your legs becomes second nature.
04-25-06, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sers
. as you get used to riding fixed, you'll probably find that appropriately controlling your speed using only your legs becomes second nature.
After a few rides, controlling speed with your legs will become completely instinctual. I keep a front brake on for emergencies, but haven't had to use it thus far. Have fun, & enjoy!
(But watch out for those Boston drivers! The only time I've been hit was in Cambridge a few years ago; completely totalled my beautiful old Lotus
)
04-25-06, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
3) It's hard as hel* to bunny hop over obsticles in emergency situations. Bunnyhopping is the holy grail of fixie skills to me.
04-26-06, 09:50 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
In fact if you apply the front brake for a hard stop you will find it is too easy to skid the rear wheel with legs alone, but with legs alone you can better prevent a rear skid vs. rear hand brakes.
My last 'roadie' ride I did fixed with front brake, there were a few times (a few more than usual) we were riding tight at 28mph and light turned red and I stopped faster that most others several of who skidded into the intersection.
Al
My last 'roadie' ride I did fixed with front brake, there were a few times (a few more than usual) we were riding tight at 28mph and light turned red and I stopped faster that most others several of who skidded into the intersection.
Al
Who were these guys that actually skid to stop fast? You out doing a road ride with the short bus for a sag wagon?
12-31-11, 08:47 PM
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You're asking a bunch of fixed gear converts what they think. Of course they'll say you don't need it. That's the thing about the Internet, go to a certain board and it's an echo chamber towards a certain philosophy. Go ask the mtbr.com 29-incher forum about getting a 29-inch bike, they'll tell you it's the best ever. Ask about frame materials, and the retro SS/FG forum will say 'steel is real', and the roadie forum will say 'carbon is it'. Be conscious of that bias.
Personally, being a bit older, and cured of my youthful perception of immortality, I don't buy into the hype. Yes, fixed gears are harder, require far more dexterity and skill to pull off many urban evasion maneuvers, and requires retraining of your instincts. Yes, you need to pay more attention, and that means you have less available for other things, which means you're more likely to make mistakes. (It's called 'cognitive load', feel free to look it up.)
I'd say to ride with both brakes for several months until you've learned exactly what a fixed demands. That's what I'm doing, and based upon some of the panic stops I've had to make, I'm glad I did, and won't be removing my rear brake for now, if ever. Will you absolutely need the rear brake? Maybe, maybe not, but you won't know until later.
Just admit to yourself you want to get rid of it for one reason - style - and go from there.
PS - I don't expect you to listen. Everyone I ride with is 30 or older, and they all laugh at the idea of taking off any brake on an urban bike, fixed or not. The only person I know that goes without a rear brake on a city bike is one of the most talented and experienced riders I know, and even he won't take that bike out for more than a ten mile ride.
Personally, being a bit older, and cured of my youthful perception of immortality, I don't buy into the hype. Yes, fixed gears are harder, require far more dexterity and skill to pull off many urban evasion maneuvers, and requires retraining of your instincts. Yes, you need to pay more attention, and that means you have less available for other things, which means you're more likely to make mistakes. (It's called 'cognitive load', feel free to look it up.)
I'd say to ride with both brakes for several months until you've learned exactly what a fixed demands. That's what I'm doing, and based upon some of the panic stops I've had to make, I'm glad I did, and won't be removing my rear brake for now, if ever. Will you absolutely need the rear brake? Maybe, maybe not, but you won't know until later.
Just admit to yourself you want to get rid of it for one reason - style - and go from there.
PS - I don't expect you to listen. Everyone I ride with is 30 or older, and they all laugh at the idea of taking off any brake on an urban bike, fixed or not. The only person I know that goes without a rear brake on a city bike is one of the most talented and experienced riders I know, and even he won't take that bike out for more than a ten mile ride.
as my my rear break goes on...
too many dirt trails, cars and HILLS around here for this non hipster 46 year old to munch it on..
01-01-12, 12:09 AM
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Thing about zombie stuff is that folks that posted back then aren't around no more...
01-01-12, 12:32 PM
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my fixed has a front brake only. it stops as fast as my geared road bike that has front and rear brakes. most stopping force is on the front wheel because of the weight being thrown forward as you slow down. i recommend having a brake, if you break your chain its the only way you can stop. i've broken a chain before. not to mention if you are hit by a car and don't have a brake you're likely to lose any lawsuit that comes from that collision because it is illegal to ride without a brake, even on a fixed gear. you can still skid around all you want and not use the brake except for emergencies if that's what you want to do.
01-02-12, 10:08 AM
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there have probably been two crashes I might have avoided with a rear brake and my rain gear would be completely duct tape free too. Both however were really low speed incidents and there is nothing that is going to save you if you are riding way to fast in crappy conditions.
there is little question that lacking a rear brake is nowhere near as big a safety issue as lacking a front one. Still in the right conditions it can make quite a difference.
there is little question that lacking a rear brake is nowhere near as big a safety issue as lacking a front one. Still in the right conditions it can make quite a difference.
In wet conditions, the rear brake helps maintain control of the bike.
A rear brake is far more useful on a geared bike or singlespeed than a fixie. I would keep the rear brake on your fixie for a while as you learn to skid as it will help you do that.
Definitely keep the front brake.
Love the Zombie threads better than the reincarnated ones.
01-02-12, 05:41 PM
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