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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 05-07-06, 10:16 PM   #1
wildturkey
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Will anyone read this? Dos preguntas.

Part 1: Surly cog won’t come off hub??
So the other night I was going reeeally fast (of course), and hit the mother of potholes. My wheel was shot. Couldn’t true it. Rim is bent. So, I went to my local LBS (Montano Velo in Oakland) and bought a new rear wheel: IRO hub with Velocity rim. I figured I could build up a new rear wheel around my existing Surly hub later on. When I got home and tried to take the cog and lockring (both Surly) off of my hub, after taking the lockring off with a little effort it turned out to be IMPOSSIBLE to get the cog off. On the advice of a mechanic, I had put it on with Loctite. Anyway, I broke my pinche chainwhip trying to get it off. I decided to throw the bent wheel back on my bike and tried to skid my way down a hill thinking that would surely unscrew my cog. Nope. Won’t come off. And I weigh 220 lbs. So, I was wondering… is this a problem with the Surly cog? The loctite method? Happened to anyone?

Part 2: Noisy drivetrain with new wheel/cog??
Since I couldn’t get my cog off, I ran back to Montano Velo to buy a new cog and lockring. I decided to get a different size (I was using a 17t, but bought an 18t). I threw it on my new wheel (using grease instead of loctite this time), cleaned my chain, and went on a ride. The resulting drivetrain was so loud I couldn’t even hear the voices in my head. Before, with the old cog and wheel, the drivetrain was silent. This hasn’t ever happened to me before. Is it because I switched to the 18 tooth cog and my chain objected? Any ideas on what I can do to make the sound go away? As I mentioned above, I can’t just switche to my other 17t cog since it’s unrepentedly stuck.
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Old 05-07-06, 10:23 PM   #2
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wait, you put loctite on your cog and now you dont understand why it wont come off? loctite is super-glue. i think you need a heat gun to get it to soften up so you can remove the cog.
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Old 05-07-06, 10:27 PM   #3
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I know, I know. But the mechanic (who rides fixed) swore I should put loctite on instead of grease -- although I had never had problems with grease.
By the way, the mechanic who told me that does not work at Montano Velo, who I mentioned above.
I guess I'll just keep that 17t cog on the Surly hub then, and rebuild the wheel around that!
Any ideas about the noisy drivetrain?
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Old 05-07-06, 10:28 PM   #4
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the only time you should loctite a hub is when you're threading it on an old ROAD hub-- not a TRACK hub like a Surly.

Unless of course you're using the freewheel side of the Surly. Which doesn't seem to be the case.

Remember, the cog and lockring tighten in opposite directions.
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Old 05-07-06, 10:33 PM   #5
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Reverse-Rotafix to get the old cog off.
Search here or google. It's a method using your wheel, frame, and chain instead of a chainwhip.
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Old 05-07-06, 10:34 PM   #6
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Thanks Slopvehicle... Yeah, I am never going to use Loctite again.
LET THIS SERVE AS SOUND ADVICE FOR ANY ONE ELSE OUT THERE CONSIDERING THIS METHOD (if you ever want to remove the cog).

About the cog/lockring, yes, I know that the cog goes on clockwise and the lockring counter clockwise.
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Old 05-07-06, 10:35 PM   #7
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Thanks, ThurstonBoise, I'll look that up...
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Old 05-07-06, 10:45 PM   #8
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what color loctite was it? there are different levels of loctite. blue is the most common, used to keep bolts from slipping, but made to be removable. if you used red, you're pretty much ****ed.
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Old 05-07-06, 10:49 PM   #9
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it was red. i'm fukced.
i guess that cog is now married to that hub. eternal, conjugal, loctited bliss. it's really ok, since i can just buy some new spokes and rim and build a new spare wheel with it, keeping the cog.
i guess my real question is whether anybody has any advice about the noisy drivetrain. is that common when you switch different sized cogs with an existing chain?
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Old 05-07-06, 10:51 PM   #10
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put the cog in a vice and turn the wheel
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Old 05-07-06, 11:10 PM   #11
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check your chain tension just to be diligent, but you should buy a new chain to go with your new cog.
the old one is prolly worn.
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Old 05-07-06, 11:22 PM   #12
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Gracias Dolface. I was going to do that at the shop today, but hesitated since I've only had my current chain since February... I did check it a couple weeks ago with my chain wear checker thing, and it was fine, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to put on a new one anyway to go with the new cog. I am 225 lbs heavy (thanks to my swollen liver and thighs the size of oxen, naturally), so I suppose it could have stretched.
I'll buy a new chain this week and put it on.
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Old 05-07-06, 11:41 PM   #13
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any thought to take the bike to the guys at Montano Velo and get an expert opinion from experts(who are cool guys), instead of having us interneters try to diagnose drivetrain issues online?

Not trying to be snarky, but the guys at Montano Velo could have had you up and running by now... Any chance you could ride the bike down there when you go to get the chain and see what they think about the noise? I am not sure a 2 month old chain is the sole culprate. Your drivetrain is all 1/8 or all 3/32 right? You did not change sizes on the new cog?
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Old 05-07-06, 11:44 PM   #14
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Don't worry, you aren't being snarky.
I'll definitely ask at Montano Velo. But they are closed tomorrow, and, you know, I was just seeking opinions tonight since I'm sort of perseverating on it.
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Old 05-07-06, 11:44 PM   #15
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p.s. Yes, my drivetrain is all 1/8
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Old 05-08-06, 12:17 AM   #16
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Dunno if you got the cog off yet, but if you haven't, you might try putting some acetone (nail polish remover) on the lockring, it should dissolve the red loctite. But, be careful, don't use so much that it drips down into the hub, and definitely keep it off the paint.
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Old 05-08-06, 12:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZappCatt
any thought to take the bike to the guys at Montano Velo and get an expert opinion from experts(who are cool guys), instead of having us interneters try to diagnose drivetrain issues online?

Not trying to be snarky, but the guys at Montano Velo could have had you up and running by now... Any chance you could ride the bike down there when you go to get the chain and see what they think about the noise? I am not sure a 2 month old chain is the sole culprate. Your drivetrain is all 1/8 or all 3/32 right? You did not change sizes on the new cog?
by the way, ZappCatt, (and I'm not being snarky either,) there are a lot of people on these forums who are bikeshop mechanics or owners and who do know what they are talking about. Also, it was a so-called "expert" mechanic at another East Bay bike shop who told me I needed to be using Loctite. So, even though I completely trust the very friendly and knowlegeable people at Montano Velo, I think it's always a good idea to get several opinions. Besides, you could post your response go-to-a-bike-shop-to-get-an-expert-opinion on half the threads in these forums.
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Old 05-08-06, 12:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by space_robots
Dunno if you got the cog off yet, but if you haven't, you might try putting some acetone (nail polish remover) on the lockring, it should dissolve the red loctite. But, be careful, don't use so much that it drips down into the hub, and definitely keep it off the paint.
sounds like it could work... but i think i'd rather not risk it and just keep the cog on the hub and use it for a spare wheel build.... thanks for the idea, though!
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Old 05-08-06, 12:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildturkey
sounds like it could work... but i think i'd rather not risk it and just keep the cog on the hub and use it for a spare wheel build.... thanks for the idea, though!
Ehem, you sure you can thread the spokes through the flange holes without taking the cog off??
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Old 05-08-06, 12:30 AM   #20
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Oh, yeah. Good point. And the obvious smacks me right upside the head.
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Old 05-08-06, 12:48 AM   #21
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Red loctite will break at 330 degrees f. Put a little heat with a torch to hub at the seam with the cog. move the heat slowly around the circumfrence of the hub to heat it evenly. after a couple of minutes, let the hub cool and the cog should come off. Loctite is not superglue. If you use it correctly it is great stuff. Just buy the blue. I use it on my cogs and I can still take them off with only slightly more effort. For me, its just a little extra piece of mind.
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Old 05-08-06, 09:44 AM   #22
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Thanks Sivat... now I just need to find someone with a torch. (ahem, cough cough)
After this ordeal, I think I'll switch back to grease and periodically tightening my lockring, but I am glad to know that the blue loctite is the way to go in case I ever wanted to put it on a road hub.
I guess the mechanic who had told me to use the red loctite assumed I'd never want to get the cog off, since I doubt she knew the heating/breaking point of the stuff. But she's a cool girl anyway.
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Old 05-08-06, 09:48 AM   #23
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Are you sure 330 degrees f won't mess up the temper of the hub and cog? I have no idea how these things are crafted, but that's pretty hot it seems.
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Old 05-08-06, 10:05 AM   #24
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i've heard several people say that using BLUE loctite on your cog and lock ring is a good idea. i never have, and almost never have problems.

regarding noisy chains, don't mean to insult our intelligence but i don't think anybody's addressed this issue yet. you say this is a new rear wheel with an IRO hub. what rear hub did the last wheel have? different hubs can have different widths from center to shoulder. there's a list of hubs and their associated widths here:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline

again, just the first thing i thought of.
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Old 05-08-06, 10:05 AM   #25
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oh yeah, if you ever make a suicide hub, use red loctite. and run a brake.

EDIT: got this idea from a poopncow post, but if you do make a suicide hub, also consider making it a left side drive train. that way if the loctite does break, it's when you're accelerating, not when you're trying to stop.

Last edited by dirtyphotons; 05-08-06 at 11:13 AM.
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