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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 05-14-06, 05:38 PM   #1
Gnarboots
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Phil Wood & Steel

Okay, this is gonna be a two part question (or two entirely seperate questions, I guess) as I haven't recieved replies in Mechanics & Framebuilding, and I think I can rely on you guys. Bear with me.

A. Got an old set of Phil Wood hubs (late-70's? pre-internal-allen-bolt) and goshdarnit if I can't get these few mm of lateral slippage out of 'em. In otherwords, with Q.R. and/or Axelrod skewers FULLY torqued, they're still loose. How to remedy this problem on sealed-bearing hubs such as these beauties?

B. WTF are the inherent differences btw Reynolds 531/631 and 4130 Cro-Mo steel? I lie awake at night.
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Old 05-14-06, 05:52 PM   #2
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531
Reynolds 531 is a brand name, registered to Reynolds Cycle Technology of Birmingham in the United Kingdom for a manganese-molybdenum medium carbon steel bicycle tubing. For many years the forefront of alloy steel tubing technology, it has been replaced and superseded by ever more complex alloy mixtures and heat-treatment/cold work cycles as Reynolds has continued to compete with other manufacturers of steel for the bicycle industry. The approximate alloying composition for 531 is 1.5% Mn, 0.25% Mo, 0.35% C, and is similar to the old British BS970 En 16/18 steel. Its mechanical properties and response to heat-treatment are broadly similar to the AISI 4130 standard alloy steel, also used for bicycle frames, amongst other applications.

631
Following on from the success of 853, Reynolds have added 631 to the range of AIR HARDENING STEEL tube sets. This seamless cold drawn steel tube will allow the benefits of this new steel to be used in the manufacture of a wide range of frames and is now considered a worthy successor to our legendary 531 tubing. Like 853 it is suitable for TIG welding and brazing and in the heat affected joint areas will gain strength, to ultimate tensile strengths in excess of heat treated chrome molybdenum. The strength to weight ratio of 631 is equal to that of many aluminium frames, and it has an excellent fatigue life whilst providing a supple ride quality suitable for long distance events.
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Old 05-15-06, 12:56 AM   #3
fixedpip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarboots
A. Got an old set of Phil Wood hubs (late-70's? pre-internal-allen-bolt) and goshdarnit if I can't get these few mm of lateral slippage out of 'em. In otherwords, with Q.R. and/or Axelrod skewers FULLY torqued, they're still loose. How to remedy this problem on sealed-bearing hubs such as these beauties?
You may not be able to. The early 70s ones (where the flanges and hub shell are different metals) will have play regardless of what you do. To quote Brent at Phil Wood "...1.5mm of play at the rim is normal on the old pressed and bonded hubs."

If you don't have the pressed and bonded ones then ignore this and ask Brent at Phil whats up. It would probably help to have a photo as it makes identifying hubs easier.

Last edited by fixedpip; 05-15-06 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 05-15-06, 02:43 AM   #4
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Are you inquiring about play in the hub that allows the rim to tilt back and forth, or about slippage in the stay-ends so that hub doesn't stay put?
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Old 05-15-06, 01:50 PM   #5
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Really and seriously, don't worry about the specific tube styles on your bike. If you ask most serious custom framebuilders (the guys who really know how bikes work), they change their tubing throughout builds for specific purposes; placing 831 in one part of the frame, 631 in another, and even a bit of 4130 chromo in there. Getting to ride and feel the individual bike's characteristics is what the philosophy of steel is all about.
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