wildturkey

I've been trying to do a search for previous threads about aluminum frames, but the search function is disabled right now. So... for people who have ridden both aluminum as well as nice steel frames, how do they compare? Aesthetics aside, are aluminum frames that much lighter than good steel (Reynolds 631 and up)?

The reason I'm asking is because I currently have a Surly Steamroller made of 4130 cro-mo (heavy) with some nice components (wheels, cranks, etc.), and I want to upgrade my frame to something a bit more performance oriented (lighter, faster) and transfer over my nice components. I'd keep my Surly as a 2nd bar-bike/beater with lesser components. Until a couple days ago, I had only been looking at upgrading to a nicer steel frame than the Surly, but then this dude let me try out his Trek T1 track bike and it was like an epiphany... it was so light, fun, and effortless to ride. It was my first time on an aluminum track bike. Not only that, I thought it was comfortable on the street, too, and I liked how stiff it was. The owner said it only weighed 16 lbs. with a front brake. It made my Surly feel like a tank.

Since I haven't ridden any really nice steel track frames, I have no point of reference as to how different a nice steel frame is from that Trek T1 aluminum frame.

By the way, since I know people are going to bash the looks of the Trek, I'll just say right now that I wasn't too impressed with aesthetics of the Trek T1 (funky top tube, shortened seat stays not coming up to meet the top tube, etc.)... but the performance was awesome. All I'm asking about is performance in aluminum vs high-end steel. Besides, I might actually go for a bianchi pista concept.

In case it matters, I'm 6'4" and 220 lbs and I ride hard. I will be riding on the street.

Thanks for the input!

thurstonboise

I haven't ridden a steel bike in years, I ride aluminum on the street, and weigh 205lbs. It's alright, it can be a bit jarring at times. Make sure to get a Carbon fork if you go aluminum, your bike won't melt.

wildturkey

Cool... I think all the production aluminum bikes (Concept, Fuji Pro, Trek T1) come with an aluminum fork, so I don't have to worry about melting.

thurstonboise

AL Forks on the road are bad. Your wrists will take a heavy beating. Go carbon even if the BF police say otherwise.

trons

all three of those bikes have carbon forks

wildturkey

i meant to say "carbon" above... yeah, they all come with carbon

carleton

I've ridden a several conversions (aluminum and steel), but as far as track frames go, I've ridden:

Pista (steel)
Pista Concept (Aluminum)
Steamroller (steel)
Pista Concept (Aluminum)

The aluminum climbs hills much better (no flexing on the rear end) and is just lighter in general. I'm a big guy (6'1" and WELL over 200lbs) and I haven't broken one riding one (knock on wood). One of my pista concepts was 15.5 lbs including Time ATAC pedals and a rear light. I also know of one messenger in Baltimore that is a pretty massive dude (built like a running back) that has been riding the same pista concept for maybe 3 years now with no problems that I know of.

The steel is a bit of a cushier ride. The steamroller was very heavy compared to the others to me.

carleton

Concept comes with a Carbon fork with a steel or aluminum blade inside.

wildturkey

Thanks... Yeah, if the differences are that the steel is cushier and heavier (even if it is more high-end steel?), while the aluminum is lighter and climbs better, yet is still sturdy, I think I'm going to get an aluminum instead of just a lighter steel frame... unless anyone knows of any types of steel frames that are comparable performance/weight wise to aluminum?? Like how does Columbus Zona or something like that compare to Aluminum?

noisebeam

What were the other 'nicer than Surly' steel frames you were considering.

I am in a similar situation of wanting a more performance oriented bike (compared to my 22lbs steel conversion). Something good for fast pacelines and hillclimbs.
A friend owning bikeshop suggested I try a Fuji Track Pro (frame only) at steeply discounted price. Before that I was thinking of more road oriented steel frames.

Al

Neist

I dunno. High end steel is pretty light. My stock Sputnik weighs 16.5lbs with a carbon fork.

Thats pretty damn light for a steel bike. Nice steel goes a long way.

wildturkey

Now we're talking. I didn't know about the Sputnik. Anyone know of an LBS in the Bay Area that sells these so I can take a look?

wildturkey

Go for it if it's a steeply discounted price. That's the thing... the light higher-end steel frames I know of cost a lot more than even lighter aluminum frames like the Fuji Track Pro, so that's why I have been starting to lean towards aluminum, even though I think all the aluminum frames are ugly (except the pista concept). But NEIST just mentioned that Jamis Sputnik, and that seems to be very reasonably priced, good steel, and light, so I don't know.... I guess I just wish there were a bike shop here in the Bay Area that stocks all of these in 62cm since I'd really like to test ride them and pick the one that feels right.

noisebeam

I'm not quite at the 'go for it' stage. I too don't like the look of most alum frames.
Also that jamis sputnik seems well worth checking out.

For me, it is not about finding a good deal, but instead about finding a bike I'll love that fits my needs at a price I can afford. (in other words, if I can afford up to $100, and have a choice between the right bike for me at $100 or a 'technically better' bike at $80 that normally costs $120, I'll still pay the $100 to get the 'right' bike for me.)

Al

morbot

i think the sputnik is out of production, might be mistaken

https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/dealer...alifornia.html

wildturkey

makes sense....
the problem i have is that i can't really test ride any of these (no one seems to stock track bikes for tall guys) so i have to go by hearsay and opinions. all i know is that the Trek T1 i tried was just as comfortable but lighter and faster than my surly. although my surly is better looking by a long shot and i don't plan on ever parting with it. i'll keep it for crappy weather, running errands, riding drunk (kidding, sort of), that sort of thing...
anyway, i only have around a thousand dollars to spend, which is why a production aluminum bike looks good, as does something almost equally light in steel, like the sputnik.
i just wish i knew how different a Waterford or something like that was, with lighter steel.

wildturkey

i saw that list... i'll call a few places. if they are out of production, oh well. my LBS just told me the Trek T1 has a 2-3 month waiting list.

onetwentyeight 

I ride steel, and my roomate rides a cannondale. I find his bike to be faster at accelerating but mine holds on to its speed better. I find the handling on mine to be a bit better, tho his is very responsive too. I find skidding easier on his, but its not very difficult on mine. The ride is a lot more comfortable on my bike, my hands/ass hurt after riding his for a few miles. I think the difference in weight is about 2 lbs, tho ive never weighed either bike.

wildturkey

thanks 128...

Integral

This is what Rivendell (one of the best custom steel frames you can get) says about frame material:
Ride Qualities of Various Frame Materials

Two things:
1) You don’t ride a material, you ride a bike; and
2) The ride quality of a bike is dependent upon so many variables that talking about how one material rides compared to another is ridiculous.

Your sense of how a bike rides depends on fit, weight distribution, frame design, components, experience, body differences, and personal preference. It’s sort of, but not exactly like how easy a weight is to lift, or how delicious a food is. Don’t take that to mean I or we don’t have our opinions, or that there’s no good and no bad in frame design. But there is a huge gray area, too.

Now obviously Rivendell, and many people on this forum, like steel better. Tires make a big difference too. If you ride an aluminum bike on 700x23 at 110psi your ride will be much different than if you ran say 700x28 at 90psi.

Personally I like to look at the overall bike and the way it feels rather than focusing on a certain material.
BTW I ride an aluminum road bike with a carbon fork and a steel fixte and love them both.

mattface 

Frame materials can be and are manipulated to take advantage of their strengths, and minimise their weaknesses. Most quality Aluminum frames don't live up to the (brittle and harsh) stereotype, and most high end steel doesn't live up to the (heavy) stereotype. If you can ride them you are probably better off closing your eyes to the material, and deciding by the seat of your pants.

No one has mentioned Cannondale track frames, and I think those look really nice. I hear the older ones ride great too. I'd like to find out for myself sometime.

wildturkey

i hear what Integral and Mattface are saying, but my problem is I can't really test ride these bikes to get a feel for all the variables (no bike shop that i'm aware of has a bunch of different 62cm track frames built up to test ride). that's why i have to base decisions on frame materials and such. i had to order my surly without ever riding it. it worked out, but now i want something lighter and less flexy.

sternmboy

what size steamroller do you have? please say 59

bikeriderdave

Hmmmm... I understand that Trek warehouses have T1s in stock. You might ask another LBS.

Neist

Oh wow. Im glad I nabbed mine a few weeks ago.

*hugs his frame*

This baby is gonna last me for years. If your still looking for a Sputnik though, Id drag ebay everyday. Maybe even call out of state bike shops. Someone has to have one sitting on a floor.