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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 06-20-06, 11:18 PM   #1
moki
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steinwerks hubs

Anyone heard of these?

http://www.steinwerks.com/hubs.html
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Old 06-20-06, 11:31 PM   #2
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they run $325 a pair. if i were in the market for a high end wheelset i'd say tentatively that it would be a tough call between those and a set of phils.
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Old 06-20-06, 11:44 PM   #3
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im interested in that activism link they've got...
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Old 06-21-06, 03:56 AM   #4
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Beautiful hubs but I'm not so sure about the aluminium inner washer with "soft brass" outer washer. I'm sure they won't scratch the frame but it seems like they might slip and get screwed up.

My Goldtec hubs use a steel allen bolt with aluminium washers and after cranking those bastards down a few times the aluminium washer starts to get distorted by the track end until it isn't flat and then doesn't grip that well.

I'd prefer a massively overbuilt serrated steel washer thing
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Old 06-21-06, 08:01 AM   #5
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These hubs are CRAZY nice, however:

-Rear is only threaded on one side, Not flip-flop. Why?
-No black finish available.

On the plus side:

-The "C-clamp" bearing retainers are quite clever.
-The "multi axis machining" used in the manufacturing process requires ownership (or access to) an expensive and complex machine.
-The brass washer and aluminum "jam nut" seems like a great solution to me, as I politely disagree with Momentum's comment above. It appears that the flange diameter of the brass washer is larger than most hub's nuts with "floating" captive washers, allowing the clamping load to be dispersed across a wider area. In additon to that, the brass washer appears to have a narrow "neck" that slots into the frame's track end, keeping it aligned and reducing deformation of the brass portion.
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Old 06-21-06, 08:18 AM   #6
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i would let other people abuse them on the street for a few years first.

they are sexy as ****, though.
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Old 06-21-06, 09:41 AM   #7
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Freaking hot. I love the idea of using a cone wrench + allen to adust your hubs.
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Old 06-21-06, 10:19 AM   #8
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the guy that made em is a friend of a friend of mine. he's got a set of wheels built on them and he's loving them. granted he hasn't ridden them very much yet, but he hasn't complained about them. i could ask him how they ride and report back, or have him come and give a review.
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Old 06-21-06, 10:30 AM   #9
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i bet they ride great... but there's only one real way to test reliability and durability. time.
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Old 06-21-06, 11:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shot

... as I politely disagree with Momentum's comment above.
Always nice to have polite disagreement on the internet!

I think they look fantastic, both aesthetically and very well designed, but I'm not sure if they would be great on the street. Aside from my concerns about whether the bolts would handle skidding I'm a bit wary of aluminium axles on the street. Does anyone have many street miles on an aluminium axled hub? Are steel axles significantly stronger?


They are so pretty though...
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Old 06-21-06, 01:12 PM   #11
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Alu axles can be more than strong enough if they are a large enough diameter. Many off road and bmx hubs have been using them for years. The only real problem is if you use bolts instead of a qr the axle has to be threaded to accept the bolt. Using long bolts so there is lots of thread engaugement helps and using steel helicoil inserts pretty much makes it a non issue.

The only problem I see with it is the bearing adjustment. In my experiance the design that is held together by the dropouts works better, see phils, goldtec and pretty much all modern mtb hubs. The adjustable designs need more complex parts so are more expensive, work no better and if the lock nut loosens up can tighten up and trash the bearings.
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Old 06-21-06, 01:43 PM   #12
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I sure hope they prove durable, I am sick of the crappy customer service with phils and I want an alternative to phils....

they are really a step above phils in the looks department imo
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Old 06-22-06, 12:05 AM   #13
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crappy service?

Quote:
Originally Posted by doco
I sure hope they prove durable, I am sick of the crappy customer service with phils and I want an alternative to phils....

they are really a step above phils in the looks department imo
Bad service from Brent @ phil's?

Lots of alternatives:
Goldtec
Zipp
Level
Pauls
Mack
Woodman
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Old 06-22-06, 12:13 AM   #14
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On the retaining hardware
I questioned similar solution on Mack hubs (a stainless steel, serrated stop on the inside + a flat, wide alu washer and a steel bolt on the outside) Works like a charm for 2000k so far. Never had a case of slipping axle since I use them.
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Old 06-22-06, 12:43 AM   #15
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How do these compare to levels/
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Old 06-22-06, 01:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_D
Alu axles can be more than strong enough if they are a large enough diameter. Many off road and bmx hubs have been using them for years. The only real problem is if you use bolts instead of a qr the axle has to be threaded to accept the bolt. Using long bolts so there is lots of thread engaugement helps and using steel helicoil inserts pretty much makes it a non issue.
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_D
The only problem I see with it is the bearing adjustment. In my experiance the design that is held together by the dropouts works better, see phils, goldtec and pretty much all modern mtb hubs. The adjustable designs need more complex parts so are more expensive, work no better and if the lock nut loosens up can tighten up and trash the bearings.
Well, this concept is used in post 1999 Campy Record hubs with oversized alu axles - yes, it is more complex solution but allows bearing adjustement without removal of a wheel. It matters more for campy as they use sort of cup and cone bearing.
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Old 06-22-06, 02:05 AM   #17
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Found these

http://www.keirinberlin.de/Keirin_Parts6.html
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Old 06-22-06, 02:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soil_Sampler
Yup.
or here:
http://gromada.waw.pl/cgibin/shop?sh...d&sid=692645d9 (high and low flange)
or here: (medium and low flange pictured)

I would say these are less refined than steinwerks but were good enough for me.
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Old 06-22-06, 07:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shot
-The "C-clamp" bearing retainers are quite clever.
thats been done many times. paul and campy are just 2 manufactorers of many to use it. it works well and does not slip!
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Old 06-22-06, 09:06 AM   #20
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[QUOTE=Soil_Sampler]Bad service from Brent @ phil's?


yeah, I have been trying to get someone to answer several questions for the last 5 weeks, yeah 5 weeks...many, many emails....no reply....

12-14 calls all I get is a voice mail and the box is full....

I don't have a fax so I can't fax them

so noone at phils for 5 weeks has bothered to even reply...

when I compare that service with the Bareknuckle and Tony at IRO...these 2 just really stand out as helpful and willing to go the extra mile with their customers(not shilling, just like the way IRO and EAI do business)

who is this Brent guy??
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Old 06-22-06, 10:48 AM   #21
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[QUOTE=doco]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soil_Sampler
Bad service from Brent @ phil's?


yeah, I have been trying to get someone to answer several questions for the last 5 weeks, yeah 5 weeks...many, many emails....no reply....

12-14 calls all I get is a voice mail and the box is full....

I don't have a fax so I can't fax them

so noone at phils for 5 weeks has bothered to even reply...

when I compare that service with the Bareknuckle and Tony at IRO...these 2 just really stand out as helpful and willing to go the extra mile with their customers(not shilling, just like the way IRO and EAI do business)

who is this Brent guy??
doco, please email me directly, brent at philwood.com.
All phone calls are returned, all emails are replied to.
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Old 06-22-06, 11:56 AM   #22
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maybe he had a death in the family or somethin?
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Old 06-22-06, 01:11 PM   #23
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doco, please email me directly, brent at philwood.com.
All phone calls are returned, all emails are replied to.

For all the calls I made, I couldn't leave a message because the machine was full, and my emails were never returned. I just should have asked my questions here on the forums. Water under the bridge now. Thanks anyway......
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Old 06-22-06, 01:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doco
For all the calls I made, I couldn't leave a message because the machine was full, and my emails were never returned. I just should have asked my questions here on the forums. Water under the bridge now. Thanks anyway......
The Machines have not been "full" once since the NAHBS show.
Maybe you could send me an email, that way I can figure out if we have received any emails from you.
If there is a problem with our products or a customers ability to contact us I'd like to deal with it.
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