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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 08-10-06, 11:17 AM   #1
LóFarkas
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Miche cranks on Shimano BB?

I know Miche is ISO and Sh is JIS. But I also know they have the same taper angle, only one is the chubbier part while the other is the slightly thinner bit of the same cone shape.
I may get a Miche crank (keep your fingers crossed for me) and I don't want to buy a new BB if I can avoid it.

Sheldon says

"ISO cranks (Campagnolo, Stronglight, others) won't go as far onto J.I.S. spindles as they ideally should.
J.I.S. cranks (most Japanese models) may bottom out if installed on ISO spindles.

In practice, you can very often get away with mixing these sizes, as long as you select an axle length that gives the desired chainline."

I think I read on his site that ISO crank on JIS BB is the better combination for mixing... so it seems like a pretty safe experiment to try. Also, I'm very light at 124 and ride carefully to protect my parts, so it's not like a 200-pound jackass will skid the crap out of it.


Has anyone here done this?

Last edited by LóFarkas; 08-10-06 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 08-10-06, 11:21 AM   #2
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I've done it with Campy cranks and a Shimano BB with no problems.
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Old 08-10-06, 12:06 PM   #3
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the problem you might run into (but probably wont be able to notice) would be the mixing of tapers actually deforming the crank taper as the spindle on a bb is usually steel and the crank al.
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Old 08-10-06, 12:30 PM   #4
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If it doesn't destroy it, I'm cool with distortion. All I ask is that it sits there firmly.

The question is, what chainline would I get with a 109 Shimano BB? Miche recommend a 107, so I'm already at 43mm, and the crank will sit further out on the spindle than it should... by how much is the question.
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Old 08-10-06, 01:26 PM   #5
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I rode with a shmano bb on my miche cranks for maybe a year. I didn't have any problems with the cranks getting damaged, but the chainline was off. I forget what the length was, I know it was longer than 107. I guess it depends on how picky you are about your chainline being perfect.
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Old 08-10-06, 05:31 PM   #6
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I'm curious about this too...
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Old 08-10-06, 05:58 PM   #7
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Miche BBs are so affordable, it's really a better idea than the Shimano.
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Old 08-10-06, 08:27 PM   #8
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I'm doing it on some sugino cranks, working great so far.

Shimano un73 68/107

same size as im guessing your going to need.

anyways yeah the un73 is shimanos sealed cartridge 107mm BB.

or if your running a no cartridge you could just change the spindle from JIS to ISO they are like 20 bucks I think somewhere any size.

Last edited by recneps; 08-10-06 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 08-12-06, 03:12 AM   #9
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recneps-could you report on how much further out your chainline is than it would be on a 107 Sugino/Campa/Miche BB? Just measure it from the centre of the frame and the gurus in here will tells us how that relates to the ISO BB chainline, if you don't know.

Toolshed: I have a high quality good BB now, and not all that much money burning BB-shaped holes in my pocket. Also, I don't think they sell Miche BBs here. They don't sell cranks, so there would be no point, really. I could get some sort of Campy, of course.
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Old 08-12-06, 03:32 AM   #10
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youre just asking for crank creek down the road.. i have the miche on a campy bb and it needs babysitting often.. id rather walk then have creeky cranks.. **** drives me nuts
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Old 08-12-06, 11:41 PM   #11
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My roommate tried exactly what you're looking to do, and he has stress fractures because of it. Bad idea, spend the $20 on a miche bb, if they don't sell them at your shop have them order one. They're sold through qbp, so they should be able to get one. Why spend $200 on cranks only to slowly ruin them because you were too cheap to spend the $20 on a miche bb?
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Old 08-13-06, 01:14 AM   #12
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Ah, no. You guys don't understand Hungary. I'm pretty sure they can't order one, whatever I do, or whatever they do. If I go into a shop and say I'm willing to pay $50 for a Miche BB, they will still say it's not available. It's a small country with a tiny market and some manufacturers will simply not ship out the small quantities demanded here, or only at a crazy price, so importers don't bother bringing stuff in.
One can only get more exotic stuff, esp. track parts from Germany or the UK, and then there's a 50/50 chance that the Postal Service will damage/steal them.

(BTW, mysteriously, one brick and mortar shop has Miche high flange track hubs for $56, so all is not lost.)

I can of course get a Campy road bb... If they sell one that's short enough.

Thanks for the info everyone. I'll see if I can get that crank and decide what to do if I have it.
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Old 08-13-06, 04:22 PM   #13
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According to sheldon, an ISO crank on a JIS taper will sit out about 4.5mm further than if the tapers matched. If miche recommends a 107mm crank, you need a 99mm bb to keep a 42mm chainline.
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Old 08-13-06, 04:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LóFarkas
Ah, no. You guys don't understand Hungary. I'm pretty sure they can't order one, whatever I do, or whatever they do. If I go into a shop and say I'm willing to pay $50 for a Miche BB, they will still say it's not available. It's a small country with a tiny market and some manufacturers will simply not ship out the small quantities demanded here, or only at a crazy price, so importers don't bother bringing stuff in.
One can only get more exotic stuff, esp. track parts from Germany or the UK, and then there's a 50/50 chance that the Postal Service will damage/steal them.

(BTW, mysteriously, one brick and mortar shop has Miche high flange track hubs for $56, so all is not lost.)

I can of course get a Campy road bb... If they sell one that's short enough.

Thanks for the info everyone. I'll see if I can get that crank and decide what to do if I have it.
i'll buy one and ship it to you if you want
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Old 08-13-06, 05:19 PM   #15
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LoFarkas:

I just mounted an ISO Sugino RD crankset on my 103mm Dura-Ace BB (JIS) and the cranks were sitting 4.5mm outboard of where they should have been.

If you're at 43mm already, there's pretty much no way you'll be able to get the proper chainline.
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Old 08-14-06, 01:26 AM   #16
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Thanks, IF. That's what I wanted to know. Funny how getting a track crank and putting it on my current BB will give the same chainline as putting a double on the same BB.

Lotsa luv to you, eb for that. I guess it's not worth the hassle. Campy is the same taper, isn't it?

I'm juggling with 2 possible crank options (The Miche and a Bulletproof) and 3 possible hub setups, with an eye to a different frame in the future, so everything is a mess.

The slightly used Miche would cost about $100. Plus I'd need to buy a new chainring and probably BB... Thats a lotta money when you don't really want a bling crank in the first place, and you're a perma-broke student...

Thanks everyone.
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Old 08-14-06, 10:41 AM   #17
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FWIW, I just put on a set of bulletproofs, and they are not creaking. 110mm spindle Shimano BB, and I'm running free and easy with easily-available 110 BCD chainrings.
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Old 08-14-06, 12:15 PM   #18
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Ha! Bulletproofs are my number 2 option! (There's a guy who may be able to bring one from London) What sort of chainline did you get with the 110 BB? It's the "BMX" thing with road double capabilities, right? That's one hell of a chimera crank... I like the looks and the price as well.

(Related news: a "shop" has a brand new Miche crank & BB for $140 here! If you want a cheap Miche drivetrain, come to Hungary Still pricey for me and I can't get a 44 ring for it)
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Old 08-15-06, 06:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LóFarkas
What sort of chainline did you get with the 110 BB? It's the "BMX" thing with road double capabilities, right? That's one hell of a chimera crank... I like the looks and the price as well.
Hell yes. I'm getting pretty damned close to a 42mm chainline, enough for me to run the chainring on the outside of the spider anyways. Roughly the same as the Sugino RD's I had on it before.
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