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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 08-22-06, 02:16 PM   #1
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LBS wants to charge me $390 for Deep Vs and Velocity(formula)s

so I went to my LBS today because I didn't want to order these wheels over the internet if I didn't have to and they said it would cost $390 for a machine built velocity wheelset with velocity(IRO/Formula) hubs . IRO has them for $260, since it is the exact same product why in the hell would they charge $130 more?
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Old 08-22-06, 02:32 PM   #2
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So that they can make a profit and pay rent...eat food, y'know little things like that.

How long have you been living in a capitalist society dude?
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Old 08-22-06, 02:37 PM   #3
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Because they need to buy campy v-brakes for their over-sized ear lobes and electrical tape for their beer guts.
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Old 08-22-06, 03:04 PM   #4
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You should figure out what it would cost you to source the parts if you were going to build them yourself, that is your base price. Then you add on labor and a small markup on each part (hub, rim, spokes). I don't know how much those hubs go for, but purchased at an LBS the Deep V's will probably run about $70 each, spokes about $70 also (give or take, assuming $1 spokes, 72 holes) depending on how many holes and color. That right there gets you to $210. Let's just say labor is $30 per wheel (though I think my LBS charges $30 per), which gets us to $280 that leaves $110 for both hubs and markup. IRO charges on their site charges $74 for the hubs. $390 might be a little high, not sure, but it is not way off.

IRO has the benefit of purchasing things in a volume that I presume most LBS's can't get away with.
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Old 08-22-06, 03:15 PM   #5
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"small markup" , at least...40% you think?
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Old 08-22-06, 03:17 PM   #6
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ben's has them for $200.
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Old 08-22-06, 03:17 PM   #7
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an LBS isn't going to buy formula hubs from IRO, unless you demand it...retail prices already have markup included, hence IRO selling them for about your first sub-total.

anyways, i suggest you checkout nycbikes, i have their formula/eggplant deep-V wheelset and it rocks, plus less than either of the mentioned options.
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Old 08-22-06, 03:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acavengo
You should figure out what it would cost you to source the parts if you were going to build them yourself, that is your base price. Then you add on labor and a small markup on each part (hub, rim, spokes). I don't know how much those hubs go for, but purchased at an LBS the Deep V's will probably run about $70 each, spokes about $70 also (give or take, assuming $1 spokes, 72 holes) depending on how many holes and color. That right there gets you to $210. Let's just say labor is $30 per wheel (though I think my LBS charges $30 per), which gets us to $280 that leaves $110 for both hubs and markup. IRO charges on their site charges $74 for the hubs. $390 might be a little high, not sure, but it is not way off.

IRO has the benefit of purchasing things in a volume that I presume most LBS's can't get away with.

The OP said they were machine built wheels. still sounds like a bit of a rip off to me.
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Old 08-22-06, 03:21 PM   #9
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i always wondered if a cheaper viable alternative woud be to buy the parts yourself, lace the wheels, and true them to the best of your ability using brake pads as a reference, and then have them trued at a shop.
i had a spoke replaced and my wheel trued for $12 once. might be a good learning experience as well
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Old 08-22-06, 03:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryand
Because they need to buy campy v-brakes for their over-sized ear lobes and electrical tape for their beer guts.
Woah... campy v-brakes are TOP SECRET. How did you find out about that? What else do you know about Euclid v2.0?

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Old 08-22-06, 03:30 PM   #11
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sers - thats what i do. lbs usually then charges me 20-25 to finish off both of the wheels.

my last wheelset, (campy record to mavic record du monde le huere tubulars 36h w sapim laser spokes) came out to be about 300 all said and done.
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Old 08-22-06, 03:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by same time
Woah... campy v-brakes are TOP SECRET. How did you find out about that? What else do you know about Euclid v2.0?

Italian men in Armani suits will be abducting you when you go to sleep. Goodnight, and goodbye, my friend.
..actually i was just referring to a post Serendipper had posted in another thread.
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*wraps black electric tape around beer gut. sticks campy v-brakes in ridiculously oversized earlobes*
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Old 08-22-06, 03:41 PM   #13
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shops have overhead, internets do not. <3
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Old 08-22-06, 03:52 PM   #14
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Well, internets definitely have overhead, but they have far less than brick-and-mortar shops do. A savvy shop that expects to charge more than the big online houses these days will need specialize in a popular but specific niche, source the persnickety-to-find stuff and offer great service- add some value to the equation. If they really have their wits about them, they'll channel that same knowledge into a successful online shop as well.

To my mind, if a shop has to obviously gouge people to make ends meet, they've got a ****ty business model. It's just too easy to comparison shop these days to pull that ****.

I was having some speakers installed in my car and the dealer told me they wanted to charge me 3x the online price for the components- I whipped out my phone, found the price online and showed them. They were cowed and offered me what I thought was a fair discount.

I didn't ask them to match prices, out of respect for their being a physical shop- but in today's market you can't expect to rake people over the coals. The consumer is getting better informed. There's a fine line between blindly upcharging to meet the bottom line and just being jerks because, "well, the customer's here, and they need the **** now.. Let's see what the market will bear! "
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Old 08-22-06, 04:09 PM   #15
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these guys we charging $40 a wheel for labor. is that absured(sp) or just me?
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Old 08-22-06, 04:10 PM   #16
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40 for a wheelbuild is fair, but if they're machine built wheels somethings wrong.
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Old 08-22-06, 04:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcurrycelt
Well, internets definitely have overhead, but they have far less than brick-and-mortar shops do. A savvy shop that expects to charge more than the big online houses these days will need specialize in a popular but specific niche, source the persnickety-to-find stuff and offer great service- add some value to the equation. If they really have their wits about them, they'll channel that same knowledge into a successful online shop as well.

To my mind, if a shop has to obviously gouge people to make ends meet, they've got a ****ty business model. It's just too easy to comparison shop these days to pull that ****.

)"
+1

Except that I don't think the niche market is as important as just damn good service to ensure consumers that their $ is actually valued. That is a niche in and of itself.
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Old 08-22-06, 04:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by onetwentyeight
sers - thats what i do. lbs usually then charges me 20-25 to finish off both of the wheels.

my last wheelset, (campy record to mavic record du monde le huere tubulars 36h w sapim laser spokes) came out to be about 300 all said and done.
thanks man, that's good to know.
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Old 08-22-06, 04:26 PM   #19
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+1

Except that I don't think the niche market is as important as just damn good service to ensure consumers that their $ is actually valued. That is a niche in and of itself.
and the fact that people who have the knowledge to buy bike stuff online are a pretty small part of most shops business. For every $100 they gouge out of people like the OP for new wheelsets and stuff they have gouged thousands out of other customers on $70 tuneups.
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Old 08-22-06, 04:45 PM   #20
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Yeah and for that seventy dollars from the tune-up it goes to paying for tools, training the mechanics, paying the mechanics, all the lil "spare" parts that get put on bikes, and covering some of the overhead, and the remaining couple dollars can be counted as profit. Trust me for the average person who hardly rides their bike, that seventy dollars is a deal by the time they have to buy their tools, lubes, rags, repair stand, some kind of training (whether books or clinics) and then the countless hours of tooling on the bike wasted cuz they have no idea what their doing. And dont forget the broken, stripped, cut too short parts/ pieces they have to rebuy cuz they mess it up...

Its like when people complain they we charge for what they consider "a simple tube install", so they buy the tube and go home to do it themselves, then come back 1/2 hour later with a "defective" tube thats been pinch flatted or gouged with a screwdriver, then finally end up buying another tube and a set of tire levers (which we recommend, but always get the funny lil comment of "ill just use a screwdriver)....
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Old 08-22-06, 04:50 PM   #21
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Those that complain about the price of goods at their local mom-and-pop will be doomed to wander the isles of a brightly lit Wal-Store for all eternity and wonder....

...what ever happened to the lil' brick n' mortar lbs?
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Old 08-22-06, 04:52 PM   #22
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thanks man, that's good to know.
buy a cheap truing stand you lazy mother****ers
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Old 08-22-06, 04:58 PM   #23
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My boss does wheel builds and offers a lifetime guarantee for trueness and against spoke breakage. He equilibrates spoke tension at the specified tension as well as ties and solders the spokes. I can almost guarantee no shop within 500 miles will do the same things for any reasonable price.

Re: Building and "truing to the best of your ability"

The problem with doing this is you may not be bringing each spoke up to tension equally, thus compromising the quality of the final build. You need a tensionmeter (or an impeccable ability to flick the spokes and recognize pitch differences) to start the build on the right track. If you brought a semi-built wheel to our shop and it wasn't starting off correctly, we'd ask if you'd like us to retension it ($20/wheel), which while less than the price for building labor, it's more than a simple truing.
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Old 08-22-06, 05:00 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipper
Those that complain about the price of goods at their local mom-and-pop will be doomed to wander the isles of a brightly lit Wal-Store for all eternity and wonder....

...what ever happened to the lil' brick n' mortar lbs?
Colorado Cyclist, Nashbar, Performance, and Price Point will surely do house calls, right RIGHT?~~!!
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Old 08-22-06, 05:02 PM   #25
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Yeah and for that seventy dollars from the tune-up it goes to paying for tools, training the mechanics, paying the mechanics, all the lil "spare" parts that get put on bikes, and covering some of the overhead, and the remaining couple dollars can be counted as profit. Trust me for the average person who hardly rides their bike, that seventy dollars is a deal by the time they have to buy their tools, lubes, rags, repair stand, some kind of training (whether books or clinics) and then the countless hours of tooling on the bike wasted cuz they have no idea what their doing. And dont forget the broken, stripped, cut too short parts/ pieces they have to rebuy cuz they mess it up...
The whole thing takes like $15 in parts and the amount of depreciation on the shops tools is infinitetesimal the mechanic is hardly being paid at all compared to the labor fees most shops charge(they are around $100 an hour here.) Anyone can do such tuneups with way less then $70 worth of tools but they lack the skills. Skills that the shop pays barely above minumum wage for byt the way. Sure, they can get away with it becuase the average rider has no other choice and I'm not saying its bad but incredibly high labour charges are alot of what the bussiness model of LBSes are based on.

They don't need a niche because there is more money to be made exploiting the general publics inability to do the work then there would be catering to enthusiasts.
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