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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 09-01-06, 06:51 PM   #1
GoJavs
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Track geo road bikes

I noticed Kalavinka offers road bikes. Has anyone ridden one of those? I figure as long as the geometry is track-like it should handle like one. I know I have a Tesch 101 and supposedly Dave Tesch used to build track bikes for the road...It's very sweet. It's a dang rocket.

You guys know any other Keirin-type builders that also do road bikes? I know Nagasawa supposedly doesn't anymore...and I know Yamaguchi (not Keirin, but...) does road bikes as well.

Nothing against fixed. I'm just really attached to my derailleurs..!
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Old 09-01-06, 06:53 PM   #2
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watanabe makes some amazing touring bikes. I believe Level makes road bikes as well. 3Rensho road bikes pop up now and again.
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Old 09-01-06, 06:59 PM   #3
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That's right. I forgot about 3Rensho. I wasted a couple of chances to bid on 3Renshos in the past on ebay.... I should have pulled the trigger....
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Old 09-02-06, 10:02 AM   #4
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Very few (if any) of those have real track geometry. Also, if track geometry somehow made bikes into "rockets," I'm pretty sure some of the cat 1 and 2 road riders would be picking up on that...or maybe they're too busy doping to be thinking about legal ways to enhance their performance?
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Old 09-02-06, 11:23 AM   #5
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Criterium-specific bikes are going to be pretty close.
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Old 09-03-06, 09:38 AM   #6
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link to watanabe touring bikes? (hopefully not track geometry)
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Old 09-03-06, 10:52 AM   #7
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Pretty much all of the keirin builders build road frames as well. Track frames are usually a smaller part of their business, actually. Builders like Cherubim and Vogue, well known for their keirin frames make some beautiful randonneur-style bikes as well.
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Old 09-03-06, 11:04 AM   #8
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Why on earth would anyone make road bikes with track geometry???
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Old 09-03-06, 11:11 AM   #9
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There's a lot of discussion of "track geometry" vs "road geometry" here, but I'm curious how many people are actually cognizant of geometry that works well for them in one way or another. I mean, there's a lot of overlap between what some of the track builders do for track frames (Italianate influenced closer to 74/74) and what some of the modern material road builders are doing (very sharp head angles, like 74.5/73.5 or so.)

There is no "right way" to choose your geometry for a track frame -- some builders choose differently than others. I'd be interested to hear Don or Richard or Sacha weigh in a bit about their choices in geometry, or the thought processes involved rather than continue uninformed blathering
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Old 09-03-06, 11:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ink1373
link to watanabe touring bikes? (hopefully not track geometry)

no clue. i saw one at jitensha. beeeeauuuutiful
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Old 09-03-06, 12:23 PM   #11
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i can't find a watanabe web site, but i found this

http://www.remus.dti.ne.jp/~suzukita.../watanabe.html

i would love to get my hands on one of these since i have a watanabe track frame. i love fraternal bikes.
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Old 09-03-06, 01:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine
i can't find a watanabe web site, but i found this

http://www.remus.dti.ne.jp/~suzukita.../watanabe.html

i would love to get my hands on one of these since i have a watanabe track frame. i love fraternal bikes.
need more like this.
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Old 09-03-06, 02:16 PM   #13
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who makes the frames for level?

BTW, I am with LoFarkas, I have some doubts about the desireability of track bike anything in the road world.
Track bikes are designed to sprint.
Road bikes to go fast.
For constant riding cyclocross seems best.
Everyone I know who rides a Nova, Conquest, Volpe, Axis, or crosscheck rides more hours, longer distances and through rougher weather than any else.
I would speculate that a more comfortable bike lets you ride longer, stronger and more comfortably.
If bikes were shoes track bikes would be sprinters spikes and the cross bikes would be good walking boots.

I have owned like twenty five bikes and my favorite ride was probably the bridgestone RB-2.
Long top tube, nice steel, simple components, nothing track about it.
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Old 09-03-06, 02:20 PM   #14
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Level is Matsuda-san's atelier.
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Old 09-03-06, 02:46 PM   #15
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I have an old kobe touring bike that I converted because I broke the drive train anyway it is supper stiff and supper twitchy it has a wicked rack on the front but it is still nice feeling
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Old 09-03-06, 04:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sashae
There's a lot of discussion of "track geometry" vs "road geometry" here, but I'm curious how many people are actually cognizant of geometry that works well for them in one way or another. I mean, there's a lot of overlap between what some of the track builders do for track frames (Italianate influenced closer to 74/74) and what some of the modern material road builders are doing (very sharp head angles, like 74.5/73.5 or so.)

There is no "right way" to choose your geometry for a track frame -- some builders choose differently than others. I'd be interested to hear Don or Richard or Sacha weigh in a bit about their choices in geometry, or the thought processes involved rather than continue uninformed blathering
are you going to ride track? if so, which event?!
geometry plays second fiddle to rider fit; before
a frame is complete, the rider's contact points
must be ascertained. after that - and only after
that - are the specs wrt center of gravity, wheelbase,
etcetera, considered.
iow, a "fixie" used on the road really needn't be a
dedicated track frame at all (unless you're just into
all the zeitgeist). regardless, trying to pedal on
pavement in a position dedicated for a velodrome
event is not that rational.
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Old 09-04-06, 12:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-RICHIE
are you going to ride track? if so, which event?!
geometry plays second fiddle to rider fit; before
a frame is complete, the rider's contact points
must be ascertained. after that - and only after
that - are the specs wrt center of gravity, wheelbase,
etcetera, considered.
iow, a "fixie" used on the road really needn't be a
dedicated track frame at all (unless you're just into
all the zeitgeist). regardless, trying to pedal on
pavement in a position dedicated for a velodrome
event is not that rational.
e-RICHIE©™®

this guy obviously has never ridden a fixed gear bike...something about zen...blahblahblah...brakes are for the inexperienced.

oh wait.
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Old 09-04-06, 10:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ink1373
this guy obviously has never ridden a fixed gear bike...something about zen...blahblahblah...brakes are for the inexperienced.

oh wait.
this is for me?
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Old 09-04-06, 10:33 AM   #19
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Cool responses. Guess I should have explained myself a little more. My Tesch (and my Howard) are both supposed to be 74/74 and I find that an ideal set-up to put me in an aggressive position for short, higher speed rides. For regular, longer rides I've got a LeMond (with nice classic LeMond geometry), a Jackson and a Cinelli SC.

What I'm looking for are other builders that built (or build) bikes similar to Tesch's philosophy. I figured Keirin builders would be inclined to do something like that...
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Old 09-04-06, 10:38 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoJavs
Cool responses. Guess I should have explained myself a little more. My Tesch (and my Howard) are both supposed to be 74/74 and I find that an ideal set-up to put me in an aggressive position for short, higher speed rides. For regular, longer rides I've got a LeMond (with nice classic LeMond geometry), a Jackson and a Cinelli SC.

What I'm looking for are other builders that built (or build) bikes similar to Tesch's philosophy. I figured Keirin builders would be inclined to do something like that...
are they really 74/74 or is that what the articles say?
it'd be extremely hard to fit joe average on a mid-large
size frame with such a steep sta without use every last
bit of setback a seatpost can eek out.
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Old 09-04-06, 11:15 AM   #21
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Dunno for sure on the 101, atmo, but as far as the Howie that's what Mr. Howard told me when I wrote him about the frame a while back...On the 101, I use a no-setback A/C post. It's fun, very twitchy and aggressive in handling, but it is MP. Short rides only...
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Old 09-04-06, 11:35 AM   #22
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Atala road had close to track specs due to crit racing frame.

I have both track and road versions and fun to ride.

S/F,
CEYA!
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Old 09-04-06, 11:39 AM   #23
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i love how when e-richie or sheldon or one of our other "advisors" are asked to chime in, they almost always do. it makes me feel safe to know they are watching...
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Old 09-04-06, 11:51 AM   #24
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i love how when e-richie or sheldon or one of our other "advisors" are asked to chime in, they almost always do. it makes me feel safe to know they are watching...
keeps the edge sharp atmo.
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Old 09-04-06, 12:27 PM   #25
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my thoughts.. i think aboutt this too much

a. my 80s road and track ciocc are nearly identical.. sometimes i feel like the road is steeper but im pretty sure the seat tube is a tad more slack on it.. i think whats been pointed out is maybe instead of saying you want track bikes.. what you mean to say is you dont want slack bikes.. plenty of road frames will give you the tight geometry youre looking for.

b. i dont think anyone on here goes to the track to just ride 800 meters and calls it a day.. if a steep bike isnt comfy to you on the street.. it wont be on the track either

and c. i know most cities are a bit more congested.. but in los angeles.. and most suburbs.. late at night the streets are like a long track.. and fun to ride on a track bike..at least to me it is.. and i think a lot of other people..thats why we ride track bikes on the street.. because we love it..sometimes ideal and funnest dont intersect..
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