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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 09-01-06, 06:59 PM   #1
godless scum
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frame choices...

so i'm in the market for a new frame, something mid-level, mainly for road duty, but able to ride on the track (i realize components are a big factor in that ability, and i don't plan to skimp). i don't know if i want lugged steel or aluminum, but the choices in my range that fit my needs/wants best seem to be the bianchi pista concept, or the de bernardi thron. any input? also, there's a veloce frame on ebay that's my size, but the seller doesn't seem to know much about it, and neither do i. any input? i really don't want to spend more than 5-600 on the frame, since that would cut into my wheelset budget.
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Old 09-01-06, 07:01 PM   #2
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Concept... just because i'm biased.
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Old 09-01-06, 07:08 PM   #3
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that is a F'n beautiful ride
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Old 09-01-06, 07:08 PM   #4
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Yes sir. **** alum. and bumps though.
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Old 09-01-06, 07:13 PM   #5
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If you're not stuck on lugs, Bareknuckle frames are really nice.
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Old 09-01-06, 09:08 PM   #6
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If you want to ride on the track, I recommend a good wheelset. Get a fairly light frame if you can help it, steel is fine, and build yourself a nice pair of wheels. If you really can't afford that, get whatever frame you can, and go with a formula hub laced to some cheap mavic or velocity rim. The $130 pair of formula/mavic is a good deal, but that's low end for the track, though people can race well on them. I would hope for something butted at least, but I have seen a guy on a Pake at the track with clinchers (the same guy who has formula hubs).

But yeah, if you don't have/want to spend the cash, don't sweat it. Just focus money on wheels and frame, crankset next, and whatever other stuff you want next (seatpost, seat, headset, bars, and stem all don't matter as much. Seat matters if it's a ***** to sit on though I guess).

As with all things bikes, once you've got a bike that is properly tuned and half-decent, it's 10 parts you and one part the bike.

oh yeah, don't forget, you'll want a nice pair of tires if you're racing on the track, and you'll also want the right clipless pedals. They don't have to cost a fortune, but make sure you can't pull out vertically. Low stack height and width are pluses. Also this requires shoes, an extra expense, but a good investment on the track. You can go with clip pedals if you want. Some guys still do that.
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Old 09-01-06, 09:19 PM   #7
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Oh yeah, and it's often cheaper to buy a used, built up bike than build up your own. For instance, a Cannondale Major Taylor (along the quality of Bianchi Concept) with HED disc rear and HED tri spoke front, along with a training wheelset with dura ace hubs and nice mavic rims, dura ace crankset, easton seatpost, OK bars and headset went for $980 on eBay. You can get a Fuji track bike real cheap. Used pista has high resale value, but it's still an OK bike, especially if they upgraded it (upgrades don't usually resell for what they put into it, so better deal too).

Track components are expensive. Keep that in mind. Used or new, they go for too much on eBay and they're too much new.

Err whoa, I just read you want to spend 5-600 on frame. That puts you at a lot higher than I thought... You can race well on a Pista concept with decent wheels. I recommend dura ace hubs for best performance/value. There are a lot of other bikes out there. Your best bet is to try one out if you can find a dealer that stocks track stuff. Fit is more important than name, especially when you're spending big bucks. Also you can stop by your velodrome and talk to the people there probably. I don't know what yours is like, but the one I went to, they were cool with me going into the middle and sitting with the racers (I knew a number of them though). I'm just getting into this stuff too, that's why I can tell you what I think is the best value, cause I'm buying this stuff right now for my bike.

Here's what I'm doing exactly: I got bianchi pista late 80s, 18 lbs as is, lighter than a modern fuji track bike, can't complain. Wheels were old so I'm doing dura ace high flange $150 (yes, my lbs has the mad hookups) to araya 16b gold ($160 set or something) with DT butted spokes ($50?). Then we have a crankset. Mine is broken so I'm not gonna use it. I'm going campy, but lots of people like dura ace. I hear campy has lower q factor (width from crank to crank), and I like that it takes square taper, cause I think proprietary design is lame. That's gonna be like $400 more. So in all, I have $250 bike, $360 wheels, $420 crankset, $140 tires (tufo s3 pro track). This is before discount, but you get the idea of what it is MSRP. Or I could have shaved a pound off and gone with a thousand dollar frame...

Last edited by kyledr; 09-01-06 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 09-01-06, 09:26 PM   #8
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don't get a debernardi, you'll find better lugged frames for as much or less if you look hard.
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Old 09-01-06, 10:24 PM   #9
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Most of the frames in your price range are great frames, it just depends on what you like. Pista Concept is great for a track only bike, not one you're going to lock up outside the bar and worry about (dents). It's great for the track though, and with the right components, stiffer than your first chub. Bareknuckles are pretty indestructable, and great for all purpose use. Pista Concept, Fuji Pro, etc. are all on the same field, but you can find fuji's much cheaper. Basically, if you plan on not babying your frame go with steel, otherwise you could go with aluminum.
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Old 09-01-06, 10:45 PM   #10
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bareknucle. light, stiff, pretty as ****. i haven't won a race on it, but i haven't really tried
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Old 09-01-06, 10:57 PM   #11
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i guess i shold be more specific... i really want a solid, fast bike, basically only for street use/alleycats, OCCAISIONALL track riding (just for fun). i'm thinkin phils laced to mavic cxp 30's... they seem like better versions of deep v's. all my experiences with mavic have been great, and i've heard some unsettling things about velocity's manufacturing proccesses.
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Old 09-01-06, 11:11 PM   #12
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cxp 30 is a tubular rim..you mean cxp 33...but you are right, they are much better than the velocity's. welded vs pinned construction. Plus in my experience wheelbuilding, they are a much more rigid, round rim overall. I'd vote for the concept if you don't mind the rigid aluminum ride. otherwise, bareknuckle is a really good value.

-R
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Old 09-02-06, 06:02 PM   #13
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what's wrong with a DeBernardi and what is better out there for $450?
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Old 09-02-06, 06:29 PM   #14
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get a standard bob jackson lugged steel frame the throns aren't painted or built very well anymore
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Old 09-02-06, 06:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterrb
cxp 30 is a tubular rim..you mean cxp 33...but you are right, they are much better than the velocity's. welded vs pinned construction. Plus in my experience wheelbuilding, they are a much more rigid, round rim overall. I'd vote for the concept if you don't mind the rigid aluminum ride. otherwise, bareknuckle is a really good value.

-R
wrong. cxp-30's were available as both tubular and clinchers. good rims.
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Old 09-02-06, 06:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wambat
If you're not stuck on lugs, Bareknuckle frames are really nice.
Bareknuckles are not lugged. Steel, yes. Lugs, no.
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Old 09-02-06, 06:38 PM   #17
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TNCLR, Wambat was saying that they weren't lugged.
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Old 09-02-06, 06:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
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TNCLR, Wambat was saying that they weren't lugged.
Oh. Whoops. I'm an ass. Sorry Wambat. You are correct!
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Old 09-03-06, 11:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retem
get a standard bob jackson lugged steel frame the throns aren't painted or built very well anymore
i was looking at that option for my next frame actually.
i have found no place in the US that stocks the off the peg frames.
know of any?

i found one place that sells the custom frames for $800. they don't sell the OTP.

according to my calculations the off the peg frame shipped from bob jackson will be around $675.
is there any customs someone in the US would ahve to pay?
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Old 09-04-06, 11:42 AM   #20
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at this point, i'm leaning towards a pista concept. i like the idea of the uber-stiff, crazy lightness. one more paycheck.... i wish we weren't getting evicted this week, i'd have ordered that **** already.
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Old 09-04-06, 11:43 AM   #21
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Yay ! to Concepts.

No ! to being evicted. I hate that ****.
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Old 09-04-06, 11:45 AM   #22
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What size are you looking for center to top seat tube? thanks.

I may can help you.

S/F,
CEYA!
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Old 09-04-06, 12:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piwonka
i was looking at that option for my next frame actually.
i have found no place in the US that stocks the off the peg frames.
know of any?

i found one place that sells the custom frames for $800. they don't sell the OTP.

according to my calculations the off the peg frame shipped from bob jackson will be around $675.
is there any customs someone in the US would ahve to pay?

sorry I was just going to bob jackson's site and they have a store it is in the uk and they have to ship
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Old 09-04-06, 12:28 PM   #24
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If you're ordering a Bob Jackson frame direct and are in the US, remember that you don't have to pay VAT (17.5%), which basically cancels out the shipping charge.

So a vigorelli is ~$590 USD shipped. (£295 GBP - 43.94 for VAT, + 60 shipping = £311 GBP = ~$590 USD).
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Old 09-04-06, 12:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacked
If you're ordering a Bob Jackson frame direct and are in the US, remember that you don't have to pay VAT (17.5%), which basically cancels out the shipping charge.

So a vigorelli is ~$590 USD shipped. (295 GBP - 43.94 for VAT, + 60 shipping = 311 GBP = ~$590 USD).
yeah i figured that out last night, lol.
i'm pretty sure i'm gonna order one within the coming month or two and it's gonna be hard not to indulge in the custom frame...i think off the peg would be fine for me, if i went custom then i would end up specifying something that was pretty much aggressive track geometry and i don't even ride on the track, i want a nice responsive bike to ride around and think the OTP would be fine.
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