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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 09-25-06, 07:45 PM   #1
kiakarimi
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IRO Mark V fork rake dilema (skids)

So I have an IRO mark V and its a blast to ride. Im getting big into freestyle stuff such as different kinds of skids, leg over the handlebars, 180, 360 etc. A trick that i almost had but was struggling with pulling out of was a 360 skid with one leg over. However, the other day I hopped on my friends newly built pista concept and was able to pull it off no problem, smooth as butter.

Now aside from the obvious fact that his bike is worth 4 times what mine is, and is plain and simple a better bike, we boiled it down to the possibility that the slacked out nature of the IRO might be to blame for the fact that i struggle to pull the skid off as smoothly on my bike, since it would cause me to be less over the front wheel.

1. Do you agree with this diagnosis?
2. If so, what can be done to correct it? (New fork recommendations, amount of rake to eliminate, etc.)

Thanks alot!
-Kia
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Old 09-25-06, 07:49 PM   #2
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no, more rake should make it more stable.

the pista is pretty twitchy with much less rake than most other track bikes out there like 28 i think.
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Old 09-25-06, 07:51 PM   #3
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Recommendation: Don't build your bike around "skids".
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Old 09-25-06, 07:52 PM   #4
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360 skid, what?
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Old 09-25-06, 08:11 PM   #5
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i had the same problem when i was learning to bunnyhop volkswagens. my recommendation is get it down on your own ride, then if you do upgrade 360 skids will just be second nature.
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Old 09-25-06, 08:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recneps
no, more rake should make it more stable.

the pista is pretty twitchy with much less rake than most other track bikes out there like 28 i think.
While thats true, the part that made it easier on his bike was not the stability, but rather how easy it was to engage the skid and maintain it. On my bike, it felt as though i was really muscling it to keep it going, which was not a result of the gear ratios as they are extremely close.

Last edited by kiakarimi; 09-25-06 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 09-25-06, 08:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekRI
Recommendation: Don't build your bike around "skids".
Its not my intention to sacrafice other aspects of the bike in order to be able to do these tricks, but if there is a simple solution, such as a fork with less rake, that will make it easier without making other sacrafices, then why not?

But also, this is something that many people, myself included, are very into and beleive it to be the natural progression of the sport for those who like to think of a bicycle as more than JUST a means of transportation.
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Old 09-25-06, 08:31 PM   #8
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This thread is nothing without pictures... err movies.
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Old 09-25-06, 08:31 PM   #9
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Yea... Concepts are tight. No biggie.

Advice for the topic? Uhhhh... practice your tricks more on your bike, and you will be able to do them better than if you were on his bike.
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Old 09-25-06, 08:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Learn_not2burn
This thread is nothing without pictures... err movies.
No videos yet, thats actually going to happen within the next couple of days with a group of us. Here are some pictures for fun though, give you a general idea.

The first is me doing a leg over, 180, seat grab skid on my IRO and the second was taken as i was 180 during one of the successful 360 attempts on my friends pista concept. Photos were taken by my friend Adam Sinding.

Any other suggestions?



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Old 09-25-06, 08:54 PM   #11
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Wow... nice bikes you guys have there. Cool pictures too.
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Old 09-25-06, 08:56 PM   #12
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IRO are built with a slacky geometry compared to the pista concept, so the tighter your geometry is, the easier it is to skid, do tricks, etc. a fork with less rake and or no rake will help with this if it really worth the money to you.
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Old 09-25-06, 09:07 PM   #13
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like, u turn skid or 180 skid?
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Old 09-25-06, 09:10 PM   #14
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You skid into a 180 motion. Or 360.
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Old 09-25-06, 09:14 PM   #15
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i was thinkin more loop dee loop skid balancing on your nuts on the bars, looks fun in my head...

but i'll never do one. if you get it on video i'd like to see that.
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Old 09-25-06, 09:20 PM   #16
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good shirt. real good shirt.
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Old 09-25-06, 09:24 PM   #17
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i have never and probably would never do all that fancy skiddin' business... but on the track, years ago i rode my jamie roy just at open sessions. it had road geometery with a 43mm raked fork and i had to fight it to keep it in the turns, while my pista takes turns effortlessly... since you're having to muscle through the skid, which probably has a ton of g force, perhaps the concept has steeper and more aggressive geometry that is more responsive under load than the iro, like what is needed on the track.

either way, i'd like to see some videos of that. those pictures look killer.

Last edited by isotopesope; 09-26-06 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 09-25-06, 09:25 PM   #18
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good shirt. real good shirt.

siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike
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Old 09-25-06, 09:27 PM   #19
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Isn't the concept a ton lighter as well? Mine weighs in at 16 pounds flat, and is super easy to do 180 skids on. The IRO pictured there is steel... correct?
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Old 09-25-06, 09:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiakarimi
So I have an IRO mark V and its a blast to ride. Im getting big into freestyle stuff such as different kinds of skids, leg over the handlebars, 180, 360 etc. A trick that i almost had but was struggling with pulling out of was a 360 skid with one leg over. However, the other day I hopped on my friends newly built pista concept and was able to pull it off no problem, smooth as butter.

Now aside from the obvious fact that his bike is worth 4 times what mine is, and is plain and simple a better bike, we boiled it down to the possibility that the slacked out nature of the IRO might be to blame for the fact that i struggle to pull the skid off as smoothly on my bike, since it would cause me to be less over the front wheel.

1. Do you agree with this diagnosis?
2. If so, what can be done to correct it? (New fork recommendations, amount of rake to eliminate, etc.)

Thanks alot!
-Kia
Kia,

You are right.

I used to fool around riding flatland BMX. The flatland specific BMX bikes always had a much steeper (higher angle) head tube that made front-wheel tricks much much easier.

Here's the proof:

Pista Concept (57cm): 74.5 degrees head tube angle
IRO Mark V (56cm): 73 degrees head tube angle
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Old 09-25-06, 09:31 PM   #21
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Here's a possible solution to your problem:



It has the exact same geometry as the Pista Concept.

I'm sure it's not hard to find a Pista Frame/Fork for cheap.
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Old 09-25-06, 09:32 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by arcade
good shirt. real good shirt.
haha, thanks BDM is the ****.



Does anyone have any idea what the rake on the Mark V fork is so I can know what to look for in a replacement? I tried measuring it myself by making a straight line down the center of the head tube and measuring the distance between that line and the center of the front hub and came up with something like 44mm, but who knows how accurate that is.
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Old 09-25-06, 09:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carleton
Here's a possible solution to your problem:

It has the exact same geometry as the Pista Concept.

I'm sure it's not hard to find a Pista Frame/Fork for cheap.
Thats a pretty good idea, I had kind of thought of that, but do you think the slightly steeper head tube angle on the pista and the concept could be the cause of the tighter geometry rather than it being a fork with less rake?
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Old 09-25-06, 09:44 PM   #24
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The obligatory quad spoke/disc wheel on the front. Does that serve any purpose or is it soely for aesthetics? I see more and more of those and have yet to find an answer as to why people use them. Especially just on the front.
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Old 09-25-06, 09:49 PM   #25
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The obligatory quad spoke/disc wheel on the front. Does that serve any purpose or is it soely for aesthetics? I see more and more of those and have yet to find an answer as to why people use them. Especially just on the front.
They are made of carbon fiber, and thus extremely light. And the biggest difference you can make when lightening a bike is by reducing rotational mass (wheels for instance). So that is the purpose that they serve, and as for the front only, they don't exactly make a consumer version for track wheels because of the added stress.
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