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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 09-26-06, 07:00 AM   #1
mattface
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Ugly Tig welds

Damn those are SO ugly! I'd never want a bike with an ugly tig welded frame!

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Old 09-26-06, 07:05 AM   #2
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Meh, I've seen MUCH worse..
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Old 09-26-06, 07:10 AM   #3
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I think the OP was being sarcastic.

Edit: On the off chance that he was being sincere, I'll gladly take that tig welded A.N.T. if no one else wants it.
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Old 09-26-06, 07:16 AM   #4
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Just to re-calibrate your sarcasm meters: I wish I could lay a bead by hand that looks like that, and I'd gladly ride an A.N.T.
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Old 09-26-06, 07:16 AM   #5
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they're certainly pretty good as far as welds go, but they are still ugly.
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Old 09-26-06, 07:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shants
they're certainly pretty good as far as welds go, but they are still ugly.
Much as I appreciate lugs, and a good fillet braze, as an amateur welder I really like the look of a nice even bead like that. Then again I always have. My first BMX was tig welded, and not only did I think the welds looked really pretty, they survived my "Stunt Man Training" phase. I flew that bike off 10' jumps, crashed it into brick walls, and basically tried every way I could think of to kill us both. Miraculously we both survived.

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Old 09-26-06, 07:24 AM   #7
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i would love to ride an ANT. beautiful bikes...i see 'em around boston and am always happy with how unique they are.
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Old 09-26-06, 07:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattface
Just to re-calibrate your sarcasm meters: I wish I could lay a bead by hand that looks like that, and I'd gladly ride an A.N.T.
I agree.
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Old 09-26-06, 07:33 AM   #9
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that head tube looks ugly the way it
sticks up way above the top tube.
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Old 09-26-06, 07:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travsi
that head tube looks ugly the way it
sticks up way above the top tube.
I know! this one is even WORSE



Nice avatar BTW
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Old 09-26-06, 07:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattface
I know! this one is even WORSE



Nice avatar BTW

hahaha! alrighty.. We now know the truth. Vanilla, correct? Dirty, dirty bicycles...
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Old 09-26-06, 07:56 AM   #12
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^ewww.

what the hell, there are these beautiful lugs,
then this damn head tube thing. its like some
incredibly hot person with one freakish feature.
part of the time you're like, 'aww, yea'. then
part of the time you're gaging...
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Old 09-26-06, 07:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattface
Nice avatar BTW
thanks, its me and my rental in rotterdam.
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Old 09-26-06, 08:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travsi
^ewww.

what the hell, there are these beautiful lugs,
then this damn head tube thing. its like some
incredibly hot person with one freakish feature.
part of the time you're like, 'aww, yea'. then
part of the time you're gaging...
I often have that reaction to Vanillas. Incredible craftsmanship, but some of the aesthetics are not for me. That's the way it is with aesthetics though. One man's Vanilla is another man's bile. I think the functional purpose of Tall head tubes is to allow for traditional style frames with contemporary fit. In the olden days people used to fit frames with just a fist of seatpost, and a level toptube. If you want a level top tube with 8" of seatpost showing you'll need to get the bars higher in relation to the top tube as well. Many here hate sloping top tubes, and hate positive rise stems, but still want 4" of clearance for their nuts. Well if you want a good fit sometimes you have to make some aesthetic compromises. Tall head tubes are the compromise some people choose. It's really not that bad a compromise either. taken as a detail it stands out, but overall it is less distracting from the classic look than say a 35 rise in the stem.
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Old 09-26-06, 08:52 AM   #15
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Now that person knows how to lay a bead. Maybe its carried over from my auto background but Ive always liked a good welded frame the most.

Last edited by Tangsooyuk; 09-26-06 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 09-26-06, 09:11 AM   #16
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There is a raffle for an ANT frame and fork at bikes not bombs. They are sell 200 tickets at $40 a piece. Kind of expensive but win a sweet frame, custom fit for you. Check out bike not bombs web page.
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Old 09-26-06, 10:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travsi
what the hell, there are these beautiful lugs,
then this damn head tube thing. its like some
incredibly hot person with one freakish feature.
On a production bike, I'd agree with you guys. But in the case of a custom, it totally makes sense, and is still a lot better looking that a stack of spacers, if that's what it takes to get a good fit.
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Old 09-26-06, 10:14 AM   #18
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do you still ride that bmx? how are you supposed to jump anything with that seat post so high?
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Old 09-26-06, 10:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeroplane
On a production bike, I'd agree with you guys. But in the case of a custom, it totally makes sense, and is still a lot better looking that a stack of spacers, if that's what it takes to get a good fit.
You're not disagreeing with me. I may not like the way a tall head tube looks, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate it's function. The thing that makes bikes beautiful is their mechanical simplicity. They are perhaps the lightest, and simplest machine capable of transporting a human being under their own power easily at speeds above 20mph. There is no greater example of form following function. A bike frame holds all the bits in just the right positions for a rider to use them efficiently. Any time you subvert function for fashion on a bicycle you are missing the point. Which brings me back to the reason I started this thread in the first place.

Tig welds are the target of much scorn by some bike snobs, but they get the job done. They hold metal tubes together in such a way that they are very unlikely to come apart. When done in a craftsmanlike way they can look very beautiful, and their beauty is not the beauty of jewelry or bright red lipstick, it's the beauty of a machine or a part of a machine expertly crafted to serve it's intended function.

P.S. has anyone else noticed FlippingHades new Kogswell PR on velospace? talk about your beautiful bikes! a tig welded, tall head tubed, utilitarian beauty! I think I'm in love!


Last edited by mattface; 09-26-06 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 09-26-06, 10:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isotopesope
do you still ride that bmx? how are you supposed to jump anything with that seat post so high?
On rare occasion, and even with the seat way up there there is still tons of clearance when I'm on the pedals. Funnily enough I've grown a bit since I was 11...
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Old 09-26-06, 12:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattface
Tig welds are the target of much scorn by some bike snobs, but they get the job done. They hold metal tubes together in such a way that they are very unlikely to come apart. When done in a craftsmanlike way they can look very beautiful, and their beauty is not the beauty of jewelry or bright red lipstick, it's the beauty of a machine or a part of a machine expertly crafted to serve it's intended function.

P.S. has anyone else noticed FlippingHades new Kogswell PR on velospace? talk about your beautiful bikes! a tig welded, tall head tubed, utilitarian beauty! I think I'm in love!
Man, I've gotta say that my Kogswell is the bike that made me fall in love with TIG welding (don't worry, I'm still in love with lugs too). There's a bunch of reasons, and a bunch of REALLY DAMN COOL things you can do with modern TIG welded frames.

First, powdercoating is a huge boon to TIG'd frames if you don't like seeing the bead. It really smoothes it over. I hardly notice the welds on my Kogswell, and if you've ever seen an ANT up close after it's been powdercoated, the bead is invisible. The tubes look like they've been glued together or something.

Second, it represents the beauty of optimized function to me -- Matthew posted a message on the iBOB list two days ago about tubing in Kogswell bikes. He explained how while custom bikes start with off-the-shelf tubing, Kogswell's "off-the-shelf" frames are all made with custom drawn tubing! Based on the angles and dimensions for each frame size, a tubing engineer creates a custom, optimized butt profile for every tube used. Brilliant. The tubing company is named ECO, by the way, and they'll make a steel tube however you want it.

I'm not sure there are even any lugs with the right angles for this frame anyway. It's based on classic Rene Herse geometry, but is otherwise a thoroughly modern frame.

Oh yeah, and the ride is incredible.
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Old 09-26-06, 12:59 PM   #22
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i really like more laid back lugs like the long shen long point, or some of the asymmetric pattern ones. i also like details on the top of the fork crown. however a lot of the lugs that i see on vanillas, rock lobsters and the like are a little over the top for me, especially when they're stainless and offset from the frame.
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Old 09-26-06, 01:04 PM   #23
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oh god, the "look of the welds" argument, seriously just bondo over them...
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Old 09-26-06, 01:49 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattface
Much as I appreciate lugs, and a good fillet braze, as an amateur welder I really like the look of a nice even bead like that. Then again I always have. My first BMX was tig welded, and not only did I think the welds looked really pretty, they survived my "Stunt Man Training" phase. I flew that bike off 10' jumps, crashed it into brick walls, and basically tried every way I could think of to kill us both. Miraculously we both survived.


Man, talk about putting me in the Wayback Machine.
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Old 09-26-06, 03:19 PM   #25
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psht, i got you all beat

bob jackson will put hedtube extensions in their custom frames if you request it...i'd rather hit my nuts.
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