silent1

I am pretty sure that I know exactly what bike shop the original poster is talking about. And if it is this shop the guy can be kind of rough around the edges sometimes, some people may call him a d*ck. I have experienced this first hand and was a little put off at first but once you get around the initial couple of meetings the guy is really cool. He also has a ton of knowledge about all types of bikes and is probably the best all around mechanic in the area if not the state. A couple of pointers, A)if you don't know what you are talking about don't try to act like you do if front of this guy because it just aggitates him and he will call you out like never before B) don't take a conversion in there and ask for help because I think he hates conversions more than anything else. I am also a fan of buying parts online because often times it is (pick one) cheaper, faster, or easier. That being said I don't go to shops and ask for any kind of knowledge or ask them to put the parts or help me with problems unless I am willing to buy something from them. I would be kind of insulted if someone brought me a box of parts and asked for help when chances are that they will be making little for their time. Also I have all of the tools that you need to do a conversion or build a bike and I will be in Champaign for work this weekend. If you need to use some tools or need some help with setting a bike up I would be more than willing to help out just PM me.

Shiznaz

I buy parts online and bring them into the LBS. Sometimes they give me a little grief for it, but only jokingly. They could tell me to f**k off, but they wouldd have lost me as a customer and the hundreds of dollars I have spent there for relatively quick and easy stuff. I'm nice to them and bring them gifts every now and then.

I personally cannot stand any business that gives me any attitude at all. Instant loss of business. I don't tell people who call me at my job to f**k off, even if it won't benefit me or I can't make the company money from it, because it gives us a bad reputation and we will lose business. If my boss found out I would be punished or fired. Basically, anyone who gives customers attitude is plain wrong. There is always a polite way to speak to customers, whether they are going to spend money or not. "Sorry, we are too busy to work on your bike right now" or some other explanation would have been more than sufficient.

Every time I hear someone who works at an LBS defend some horror story a customer has about an LBS, it makes me think of all the LBSs that went out of business around me. Bike shops are a service oriented business. It doesn't matter whether a customer is worth your time or not, YOU MUST ALWAYS ALWAYS TREAT THEM WITH RESPECT. This is just common decency apart from anything else. If you are an LBS with a sign that says 'Open', you are inviting the world to engage you in business. If you tell your customer that you just invited in to screw off, you just lost out and are a jerk and an idiot.

willus

This is so true. I bought a frame online and brought it in to my LBS to check out. I was looking for the BB/HT to be faced as well. The frame was painted and there was paint buildup on those areas. The wrench gave it a quick 2 sec once over and said it was good to go. I asked about facing the BB/HT and he said no. Then I got into a discussion about facing and when to do it when the other wrech came over and asked me where I heard this stuff. I said I read it here and there on the 'net and some books. This was the point where the shop owner/wrench started to talk down to me saying building bikes is hard and that I should really think about it. "we have been building bikes for 15 years..yadda yadda yadda..."

whatever! that was the last time i went to that shop. I built my bike up(1st build) with no problems and it rides great.

Nowadays, if I need to goto a shop I go out of my neighborhood or into Manhattan to Sids or something to find deals I can't get online.

mcatano

Again, shops make far more money putting things together than they do selling things to put together.

m.

LóFarkas

Didn't read back much, sorry if this is redundant. My view anyway.

1. It's perfectly understandable that bike shops are concerned about the net taking away their business. It is, obviously

2. It's ****ing nasty to go to a shop, nag the wrench for half an hour to learn about which part works with which, what's your frame size, what tool you need for the BB, what length spokes you need etc., and then buy the stuff online

3. However, the OP wasn't doing that.

4. The shop guy was a d!ck. That is not the way the shop will keep/get back customers. They will never recover (all) the parts selling business, that's webshop territory. Being pissed about it doesn't solve anything. LBSs can provide service... that's what the OP asked from them. (Wanted to know what tools/parts he needs and intended to buy them on the spot, right?) If they refuse to do that, they should close and the sooner the better.


BTW, I can understand why they are reluctant to put stuff together for you that you bought elsewhere. I wouldn't really expect my LBS to do that if they sell the particular parts. Or do it for an extra charge. They could argue that it's a pita cuz they have to check if they are compatible and you didn't get the wrong stuff etc.
Still, not selling you tools? Again, being a dick will only lose them money.

bbattle

Is it legal for bike shops to charge different labor rates for parts bought elsewhere vs. parts bought at the shop?

My LBS offers such great service there's no way I'd insult them by buying parts online and asking them to install them.

Shiznaz

As long as they tell you I see no problem.

Another note is most of the stuff I buy online cannot be had at any LBS around me, even on order. It seems many of you buy from the LBS as a kind of 'charity'. I buy generic parts at the LBS if they are roughly equivalent to the online price, but sorry, that 15% markup is just as important to customers as it is to the shop. If I can get it for cheaper elsewhere then I'll buy elsewhere. I'm not an idiot after all.

thurstonboise

Yes. One of the shops here cuts you a deal on labor when you buy the parts from them.

LóFarkas

'zactly.
We have an LBS here that makes a living purely by being the nicest bunch of guys around. You walk in a complete stranger... any part, any tech help you need, they'll act like you're childhood friends and hunt the stuff down for you. It's a relatively small place well outside downtown but they get all the obscure parts you may want, and actually call you when they have it if they promised so (only shop that consequently makes good on its promises...) So people go right by other shops to them.

The owner somehow remembers everyone that comes in the door, what bike they have and what they bought there... He'll greet people like "Hi, how's the Bianchi rollin'?" And you're like, yeah, good, but how the F do you know? I've only been here once and that was 2 months ago...

When I went in looking for a $50 bullhorn bar (about 10 people ride them in the city.. niche market is an exaggeration. Nonexistent market) the guy said "Sure, we can order one for wednesday." I said "Cool, but I have no idea if I want it or not. I'd have to see it first." He: "No problem, we'll order it. Come have a look at it when you can." He knew full well that if I don't buy it, it'll collect dust for 6 months before anyone even looks at it...

That's the sort of shop that will survive.

dirtyphotons

the op's experience seems a bit extreme compared to my experiences, and it may be an anomaly, but i've definitely gotten that vibe.

most mechanics that i've dealt with are gruff at first, and all but one or two have softened up considerably when they can see that i'm gonna fix my bike and get rolling whether they give me attitude or not.

i think they're pretty much screening out those who are "just looking" or are otherwise more trouble than they're worth.

again, this doesn't really relate to online parts or to the op's experience specifically, but just a general pattern i've noticed. all lbs' i've ever dealt with have been willing to install *new* parts from other sources.

spud

i broke the seatpost binder clamp on my Fuji Track a few months ago, took it to my LBS who is a Fuji dealer, though does not stock Track bikes, we went through what they had in stock and nothing fit correctly; so we looked in the catalogs and ordered one (the mechanic didnt measure it). meanwhile i needed my seatpost to work, so i took it to a different LBS who also didnt have a replacement in stock but was nice enough to let me use their phonebook to look up other shops in the area. found one with a large selection of parts and i got the replacement part after trying a few sizes. a couple weeks later i get a call from my LBS that the part is in, take it in and find it is the wrong size (should have measured) and i ordered the correct size, still waiting for it come in. its been over two months now; and in less than a week i could have ordered and received 4 or 5 clamps kept the one that fit and returned the rest, and probably for less money; but instead i had to go to 3 different shops to find the part i needed. luckily i don't depend on my bike as my primary method of transportation.

true a seatpost binder clamp is very simple to install and most (all?) cyclists can do it themselves, however if my (and other) LBS do not stock them or can get them in a reasonable time from the distributors, why should i not order it online and get it in a couple days (or overnight)? There are advantages and disadvantages to brick+mortar and online/mail order; utilize the best of both. Both will adapt and try to improve where they fall short, or go out of business. Not every shop can stock all the parts and components by all the manufacturers, a few shops can, but not many. Loyalty is earned, not expected; most of the mail/online shops know this and do a lot of sale promotions to keep customers returning.

Do i think people should buy all the parts at the cheapest store to save a penny, and expect the LBS mechanic to be thrilled to install it? no, but there is no contract written or unspoken that demands you buy everything from your LBS. I'll happily pay a premium to have a large readily-available selection of products and a friendly and knowledgeable staff assist me; but i'll think twice and probably go elsewhere, if they make mistakes, take a long time to repair or receive parts, don't keep shelves stocked, or are condescending to me.

and just to throw something in to the mix, what about NOS? what am i supposed to do if i'm restoring a bicycle and my LBS doesnt have the old parts I want, slap newer parts on it because that is what is in stock; or pay through the nose to have my LBS call/look around for NOS, when i could do it myself?

rocks in head 

I ordered some parts from my LBS... I wanted to have them work on my bike, but they don't have a lockring wrench... I guess there aren't many fixed gears in my neck of the woods. Anyway, I bought a bunch of stuff from them, but the cog I got from them was misstamped. I took it back and asked them if they'd send it back to surly for a refund, but it was special order and I can't return it. So now I'm stuck with a mis-stamped surly cog.
I ended up ordering myself a lockring wrench, crank puller, and some dura-ace components from Harris, and they arrived 3 days later. I couldn't be happier, and I get to do all my own work (fun). I'm going to try not to ever go back there. Performance is more out of my way, about 5 miles rather than <1... but still, I'd rather go there now. Besides, most of the stuff I've gotten online is Performance/Nashbar anyway. I wish there were some cool locally owned shops that were possible for me to get to, but those are all 10-15 miles away, and not on my way to or from work, so it's a bit more of a ride.

ryand

ride to dc and see your friends. derrrrrrr!

xpenny

I guess we understand each other pretty well here That is the guy I am talking about. I know
he is the best in terms of bike, but not the way he acts, and the way he treated bike is the primary
reason I went to him. Maybe he's just too self-absorbed. Usually cool and talented people behave a little bit derail.

Blender

If I had a LBS I would have a WI FI setup, couple computers, popular Bikepart links, maybe a negotiated discount, shipping or other with the parts house, a little coffee and help em buy online. Then have them Dropshipped to the Shop for installation.
Lots of bikers hang out at the shop after rides and such anyway.

dirtyphotons

allow me to suggest, for a third time now that you contact surly directly. for the most part they stand behind their products and since this is obvious manufacturer error (i know because i saw the thing) i have every reason to believe that they will make it right.

nick@surlybikes.com

or

1-877-743-3191

rknj

The way I look at it, bike shops need to treat their Sales and Mechanics as almost completely separate entities if they want to survive. I mean, look at car dealerships, they've been doing it for decades. You want to buy something, you go to the showroom. You need something fixed, you bring it to Service. Service doesn't give a damn if you got the part out of a junkyard or online or wherever, they make the same money minus the hassle of having to order or restock whatever you brought.

I figure I buy my bikes/frames at an LBS, but if I'm upgrading a part I'm much better off ordering it online for less and paying them to install it if I can't, than paying the markup they have to pay to their middleman or haggling them down and reducing the profit they make on that part, which is bupkis next to the labor.

Besides, the money I save on that part.. I'll probably just come back and blow there on something else anyway.

rocks in head 

yeah, I'm just lazy and unmotivated. Still doesn't change the inability of the LBS to do anything about it. I'm going to, someday, but until then it's still a good griping point on teh intreweb.

San Rensho 

The guy was rude. But basically he didn't want to get into a no win situation and he just should have told you so. He's been through this before and he knows it usually ends with one of the following bad scenarios:

You walk in with a bunch of parts that I can guarantee you would not work flawlessly together without some fiddling, perhaps different parts. He gives you an estimate, then comes back and says it won't work, you need, for example, a new BB or different reach brakes. You grudgingly pay the difference, think "this guy ripped me off" and never return and bad mouth the guy. He loses.

Or, he gives you an estimate, says, "no guarantees, I didn't recommend these parts", does the best he can, probably going way over the time he charged you for, and gives you the bike. Doesn't work right. You think "this guy ripped me off" and never return and bad mouth the guy. He loses.

You might have approached the project by going in with the bike and saying, I want to convert to a fixie on my own, what do you recommend? He suggests the parts, you buy them from him, then pay him to remove the cranks, BB, whatever. Now, when you get stuck, he will try to help you because you followed his advice and he wants it work, because his reputation is on the line.

Or just post on the mechanics section and we will talk you through anything, we don't have a life!

Pemdas

yo i found out that bike shop dudes really like coffee. too bad i moved and dont have access to free coffee anymore.

HelluvaStella

It's been said in various different ways in this thread, but I'll restate it in my own words:
I just think it is considerate to ask first if a shop will install/work with/maintain your parts bought online. I grant that according to the OP's description the shop guy was out of line, but in my experience many different businesses consider it an insult when someone *assumes* the shop will work with things they sell in house. Ask first.

The way I usually go is figure out what I need, do a little interwebs surfing to find a price range (factor in shipping) then go to/call the shop and ask how much they charge for the same stuff. If it's wildly marked up, I find somewhere else. If it's within 10%, I just think of it as a warrantee if the shop is the type to stand behind its stuff. And you wouldn't go to a shop that doesn't, would you?

Aeroplane

That is much better, thanks. Especially if that person works at a restaurant.

operator

This is completley ****ing stupid. If a LBS won't do work for a customer (which in this case the OP is obviously willing to pay for) they deserve to go out of business.

Seriously.

Aeroplane

I had a shop like that. It went under after a year.

mrRed

I work very closely with my father, running our family business. You never turn down a chance to work on someone else's product because it very often will lead you to selling something to them down the road. We love installing other people's products. We have about 10,000 sq. ft. of manufacturing space in NYC which is constantly being used, but if someone bought a product from somewhere else, at a price we can't match, we're very pleased they decided to come to us to install it. Not only does it means that they value our time enough to give us money for it, but it means that some day we're more than likely going to have the chance to provide them a product or service again, which companies always need.

Now I'm sure the shop owner is frustrated that he/she can't compete with the internet, but shops don't exist for the sole purpose of selling goods, they exist to provide service to their clients, both current and prospective (whether in the form of retail goods or labor). Only a fool kicks a potential client out the door without first engaging in a discussion with them. If you were doing something stupid than it should be the shop's duty to inform you of your less than genious decision and try to persuade you to take a more appropriate route. But if you're not doing that, than they should help you out, and charge you a fair rate for labor, with no discount because you did not buy stuff from them.