Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-27-06, 07:41 AM   #1
thatxkid
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Campy track hub help.

I have been thinking of purchasing some Campy Vintage High Flange Track Hubs (nos), and I spoke to

someone who was really against the idea of using them for street use.

I'm just looking for other opinions about this, does anyone ride on these?

I'm trying to have a complete Italian build up, but would hate to spend the money

and the equipment fall apart.

Thank you in advance.
thatxkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 07:48 AM   #2
ryand
dutret has a posse
 
ryand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: washington dc
Bikes: IRO Angus 53, Marinoni Special 54, LMNO Custom Road Bike, Guerciotti TT, Late 60s Bottechia Road, Univega Via Montega beater/polo/rain bike.
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Its up to you.

Ride them in the street if you want to, but IMO I wouldn't.
ryand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 07:58 AM   #3
thatxkid
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That is quite a bum-out.

I would really really like those hubs though. Does anyone know an Italian company that makes good strong track hubs, that might be what I'm looking for?

P.s. thank you for the info.
thatxkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 08:01 AM   #4
hyperRevue
King Among Runaways
 
hyperRevue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MKE
Bikes: 2004 Bianchi Pista, Cannondale Track, Soma Pake, Schwinn Breeze
Posts: 4,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatxkid
That is quite a bum-out.

I would really really like those hubs though. Does anyone know an Italian company that makes good strong track hubs, that might be what I'm looking for?

P.s. thank you for the info.

Miche.
__________________
"I owe everyone an apology" - hyperrevue
hyperRevue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 09:03 AM   #5
thatxkid
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperRevue
Miche.

How good are they? I was thinking the same thing at first.

Do you think if I had some miche hubs, there primato seat post

and campy bb and crank, that anyone would say anything? ha ha.
thatxkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 09:05 AM   #6
Ceya
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 3,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Buy them and ride them.

Why not get them?

Super Record and Nuevo Records , No problem. Early CRecords no problems.

The CRec issue came up when they started with new alloy that Campy was trying to use.
If you see their C Rec BB it is very light alloy and that is what they tried match that. This was in the 90s.

I still have my CREC 1986 hubs , I bought these new at that time. I have numerous Campy hubs that are 21 yrs min in age to the oldest Super Record hubs I have from 1980.

I remember the issues when I was messengering back then and alot of us are still riding them. People was riding Campy track hubs for years without major issues.

S/F,
CEYA!

Last edited by Ceya; 12-27-06 at 09:16 AM.
Ceya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 09:17 AM   #7
thatxkid
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceya
Buy them and ride them.

Why not get them?

S/F,
CEYA!

Well when I asked the guy whom I was going to purchase them through about the quality

he asked how I would be riding them, I said brakeless road, and he said quite sternly that

he suggested against it, because they are designed for track. Than I read the story posted above

and it only adds to my nervousness. The last thing I want to worry about is flying down some hill in

Atlanta and have the hubs explode if i hit some uneasy pavement or stop to hard.

Plus I don't think anyone wants to be in the whole $300+ in such little time.
thatxkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 09:25 AM   #8
Ceya
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 3,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Any hubs will have issues, as I stated before it is the person that build your wheels, that counts. I seen other makers stuff jack up especially Miche on the street (in the 90s NYC messenger scene).

The majority of us rode Campy, Gipiemme,Zeus then later Suntour and Dura Ace. We had alot more cobblestones streets then also in NYC and they held up.

I still ride mine on the street and will till they die.

S/F,
CEYA!
Ceya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 09:25 AM   #9
I Like Peeing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Bikes: 1985 Pinarello Catena Lusso / 1983 Pinarello Montello / Raleigh Marathon / Camel Cigarettes conversion / 1957 Worksman cruiser / Puch 140 / Raleigh Grand Prix
Posts: 849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm in the same situation right now. I'd like to get Campy Record cranks and then hubs to go with it, but I wonder how it'll fare in the streets. Problem is, I'm not interested in Phils and I'm not interested in Miche, either. I've been very happy with my plain-looking Formulas with IRO cranks, but occasionally I have an urge to splurge.
I Like Peeing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 09:29 AM   #10
thatxkid
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
CEYA,

What were you saying about the older Campy Record High's?

The one from the 80's are they different material?

Also how will i know if they are the good ones or the bad ones?

Thanks in advance.
thatxkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 09:44 AM   #11
Ceya
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 3,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They had went from steel to very light alloy.


The Crecords from the first run i see are good. It seems as the 90s came in they tried to light the hubs. Which I see lead to hub failure.

Ok there are older hubs and cranks that had cracked , even I had one Campy Super Record front hub fail and a crank arm crack. That is one out of many That I have bought and still I ride Campy.

If I wrote about Miche had crap in the 90s alot of guys wouldn't but it but that was then and they seem to have gotten better ( from what guys are telling me).


I am not trying to convince you to buy Campy but tell you from a guy who was messenger in NYC at that time and ridden Campy NR, SR and CRec on almost all his bikes.

I have personally been there done that on those hubs as well as Suntour Sprint, Superbe and Superbe Pros, Dura Ace, Gipiemme and Zeus.

There is always two sides of a story and this is mine. No more no less.


If you want a guarantee from a company that support street riding then Campy will not , I don't think Shimano does it either.

S/F,
CEYA!
Ceya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 09:51 AM   #12
sashae
ganbatte!
 
sashae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: nyc
Bikes: '06 Vanilla touring, '09 Vanilla cx, Zanconato cx, Moots Psychlo-X RSL prototype, Nagasawa track, Kalavinka track, Black Cat 29er, Cannondale Rize 2 26er, Serotta CRL Legend
Posts: 1,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No, they do not.. the 7600s are not officially approved for street use. Now, there's obvious reasons for that. 7600s have a very thin plastic 'dust shield' that protects the bearings from water/dirt/etc. If you're riding those hubs in the rain, the grease will become polluted potentially resulting in shot cups, etc.

If you're going to jump off curbs/ride down stairs, does it make sense to ride something that's meant for smooth pavement or boards? Not necessarily. If you take care of your equipment, it'll take care of you. If you want something maintenance free, get something with sealed bearings and solid (or low) flanges.
sashae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 09:56 AM   #13
thatxkid
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceya
They had went from steel to very light alloy.


The Crecords from the first run i see are good. It seems as the 90s came in they tried to light the hubs. Which I see lead to hub failure.

S/F,
CEYA!
I think I am going to go with the Campy Vintage. But how will I know if they are the alloy or steel?

not to be naive, like if I was to order these from somewhere. what are the Campy Vintage (nos)?

steel or alloy?

Thanks for everyone's help.
thatxkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 11:07 AM   #14
Ceya
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 3,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
[QUOTE=thatxkid]

I think I am going to go with the Campy Vintage. But how will I know if they are the alloy or steel?

If they are Super Record then no worries.


not to be naive, like if I was to order these from somewhere. what are the Campy Vintage (nos)?

Anything vintage is what most consider 20yrs old.



steel or alloy?

Anything from 1989 and back is good.



Thanks for everyone's help.

No problem

S/F,
CEYA!
Ceya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 11:15 AM   #15
BostonFixed
Banned.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 4,418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Campy does not warranty their track hubs if they are used on the street.

I think that should be all you need to know about your question.
BostonFixed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 11:17 AM   #16
BostonFixed
Banned.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 4,418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperRevue
Miche.
Just go IRO or another formula sealed bearing hub; all sealed cartridge bearing hubs are essentially the same, except for minor cosmetic variation such as flange size and appearance, etc.
BostonFixed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 11:27 AM   #17
onetwentyeight 
blah
 
onetwentyeight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 5,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i have a 210 lb friend who is riding on 28h campy record high flanges daily and they are holding up just fine. i have some 36's that i love. as ceya said, its the quality of the wheelbuild that matters most. my first pair of record hubs i was the 3rd person to ride them, original owner was a messenger in amsterdam who rode them daily. they were still in great shape. i checked for stress fractures (none) built it up, and they were problem free.
onetwentyeight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 11:30 AM   #18
sashae
ganbatte!
 
sashae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: nyc
Bikes: '06 Vanilla touring, '09 Vanilla cx, Zanconato cx, Moots Psychlo-X RSL prototype, Nagasawa track, Kalavinka track, Black Cat 29er, Cannondale Rize 2 26er, Serotta CRL Legend
Posts: 1,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
...also, as for C-Record hubs, the road hubs are IDENTICAL to the track hubs, other than the provision for a lockring on the rear and the solid axles. Campy's being pedantic.
sashae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 11:33 AM   #19
onetwentyeight 
blah
 
onetwentyeight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 5,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
god bless campagnolos crack legal team.
onetwentyeight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 11:34 AM   #20
jacobpriest
shadybikes
 
jacobpriest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Waco/Plano/Dallas/Brooklyn, Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 1,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lots of people ride them in the street with no problems.
jacobpriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 11:39 AM   #21
endform
blacksheep the blemish
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Portland/Greendale
Bikes: 1973 Schwinn World Voyageur (manufactured by panasonic), Italvega Super Speciale (fixed, primary ride now), Kona 2004 JTS 10 spd
Posts: 1,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatxkid
Do you think if I had some miche hubs, there primato seat post

and campy bb and crank, that anyone would say anything? ha ha.
They will only say anything if they are a ******.
endform is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 11:45 AM   #22
BostonFixed
Banned.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 4,418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by onetwentyeight
as ceya said, its the quality of the wheelbuild that matters most.
Not if the flange itself breaks..
BostonFixed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 11:46 AM   #23
onetwentyeight 
blah
 
onetwentyeight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 5,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
..which is much more likely in a poor wheelbuild where stress is distributed unevenly.
onetwentyeight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 01:22 PM   #24
11.4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You really have to abuse your hubs to have a problem with Campagnolo hubs. Campy made steel hubs back in the 50's, but they had three-piece bodies and actually weren't all that good. In the 60's they came out with their all-aluminum one-piece Record hubs, which were so good that they were simply adopted into Campy's Super Record line (and not even called Super Record). They were finally replaced by the C-Record ("sheriff's star") hubs. The Record hubs are readily identifiable because they had the elongated oval holes on the flanges rather than the triangular ones on the C-Record. They were made of a softer alloy that resisted cracking better and they were manufactured by a method called spinning. In this method, a thick-walled aluminum tube was put on a metalworking lathe and special tools were pushed against the metal as it spun at high speed. It actually caused the metal to flow (or be pushed -- imagine how clay would move under your hands while you spin it on a potter's wheel). Spinning causes the metal of the flanges to rise up while the central portion of the hub decreases in diameter and becomes very thin. This method has the great benefit of removing stresses and weaknesses from the metal so it's much less prone to breakage (it has many of the same benefits as forging the metal). This is the same method used for Suntour Superbe Pro and Dura Ace 7600 high flange hubs. Campy used this method up until they came out with the C-Record line (the "sheriff's star" track and road hubs), at which point they simply turned the hubs on a lathe. Unlike Phil Wood, which used special high grade aluminum blanks and made their flanges sufficiently strong, Campy used what was frankly pretty cheap aluminum and then machined it more (it wasn't the best of times for Campagnolo). Now the upside is that it was a good bit lighter than a current Phil Wood hub, but the negative was that it wasn't absolutely bombproof.

You can't expect any hub to be completely bombproof. If you want to jump curbs all the time and ride like a BMXer, expect your equipment to break just like BMX equipment does -- plain and simple.

However, as Ceya said, many of us have ridden for many many years on Campy Record hub. They were the standard hub at the Tour de France for many years. You have to maintain the bearings, but you can expect a pair of Campagnolo Record hubs to last for 20+ years of heavy, regular use. That's what professional road riders in Europe subjected them to, and the Record track and Record road hubs were identical inside except for the quick release axle. If you want maintenance free sealed bearings, then don't get Campy Record. There were very rare breakages, but then I've seen very rare breakages of Phil Wood and Paul hubs as well. There are no limits to what some people can do to equipment.

Campy C-Record hubs are marginally more fragile than Record hubs, for reasons described above. However, they also performed really well. There's an infamous photo of a fractured C-Record hub that makes its way around this forum from time to time, but if you look closely, it didn't break from riding. It appears that a car ran over the spokes of the wheel as it lay on the ground and the lateral pressure snapped the flanges. The way they broke in that photo is not the way they break if they are snapped by pressure from the spokes. (A group of us have actually collected almost 180 hubs with broken flanges to study how hubs break, in particular whether radial lacing contributes to this problem.) C-Record hubs do still show some level of breakage, but it's typically associated with abuse -- going into a sewer grate or big pothole while jumping off a curb is one of the most common causes.

So to your question, don't abuse the equipment and maintain it properly, and you should be able to ride Campy Record hubs (or C-Record hubs, for that matter) for many years. If they could be ridden for years through Belgian cobbles, and if you break them on city streets, the problem probably lies with you, not with the hubs. Don't radial lace them, don't use crows-foot lacing, and ride sensibly. You can find slightly used ones at very good prices (it's only the new-old-stock hubs in the box that are outrageously priced). I agree that old Campy Record hubs are classy. If that turns you on, go for it.

Last edited by 11.4; 12-27-06 at 01:35 PM.
11.4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 01:25 PM   #25
el twe
crotchety young dude
 
el twe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SF, CA
Bikes: IRO Angus; Casati Gold Line; Redline 925; '72 Schwinn Olympic Paramount
Posts: 4,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think I love you, 11.4.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardiacKid View Post
I explained that he could never pay me enough cash for the amount of work I had put into that bike and the only way to compensate me for it was to ride the hell out of it.
IRO Angus Casati Gold Line
el twe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:29 AM.