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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 12-27-06, 05:43 PM   #1
waldner
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Any info on this frame? (Argentinian "Master" track frame)

Hi everyone,

I'm a first time poster here att Bike Forums, and I thought I'd see if you guys could help me out on this one.

I got a track frame off eBay a couple off months ago. After some initial struggle with fitting a french threaded bottom bracket, the project is starting to come along. However, I'm curious to know more about this frame! The seller told me he got it during a trip to Argentina. Apparently, it had been sitting in the back of a bike shop for some twenty years or so and never been ridden. And judging from the fact that the paint on the fork ends is intact, this seems correct even though the overall appearance of the frame is a bit scuffy (no dents or signs of rust though).

As I hope you can see from the blurry pictures, it's a lugged steel frame, quality of tubing is unknown. The decals say "Master", and bear a striking resemblance to those of the "F.Moser" brand. There is also the word "Telaio" (which I believe means "frame") and "Made in Argentina". Fork ends are stamped "MIRAGE DIVISION 1". Included was also a Savoretti brand bottom bracket, likewise marked "Made in Argentina". Nothing stamped underneath the bottom bracket shell. Fork is drilled for a front brake, but that's it. The color is a Bianchi-like "Celeste".

This was obviously an entry-level frame back in the 80's, but I really like it and I'm curious to find out more. Despite many hours spent on Fixedgeargalley, Velospace etc, I've never come across anything quite like it. This could hardly be the only one, could it? (Well if it were, that would be pretty cool, but I don't believe it) So, does any one here have any additional info? I would be most grateful. I might post this in the Classic & Vintage section as well if that's all right.

Best regards
Erik Waldner, Sweden











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Old 12-27-06, 06:17 PM   #2
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I've got no idea about the frame, but it looks interesting. People in the "Vintage/Classic" forum may be able to tell you more.

Any idea on how you are going to build it up?
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Old 12-27-06, 06:24 PM   #3
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Gee, I hope that "struggle to fit a French threaded BB" wasn't you cross threading the shell.
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Old 12-27-06, 06:25 PM   #4
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It looks nice. I just hate these "What did I buy?" threads.
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Old 12-27-06, 06:30 PM   #5
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why on earth would you hate someone trying to find out some information about what's clearly an interesting frame?

waldner as has been said classic and vintage may be able to help. otherwise there are several board members, sashae, ceya, 11.4, who have unbelievable troves of information on rare, esoteric or just plain odd bikes. a pm to them may well lead to insight. good luck - it's a nice looking bike, and i like curios.
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Old 12-27-06, 06:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popluhv
I've got no idea about the frame, but it looks interesting. People in the "Vintage/Classic" forum may be able to tell you more.

Any idea on how you are going to build it up?
Thanks!

I'm building it up for street use primarily since there are no velodromes in Sweden anyway. My first thought was "No NJS parts, no Brooks saddle". In other words, I'm doing a functional and slightly BMX-inspired city beater rather than a classic restoration. Here are the parts I've got so far:

Handlebars and stem: 3ttt Pista
Wheels: Formula hubs on Mavic Open Pro rims
Crankset: Bulletproof
Chainring: Rocket Ring 46t
Saddle: White Selle Italia Turbo
Bottom bracket: Savoretti/Sakae
Headset: Shimano 105

Still have to decide on a cog, find a nice 26.0 mm seat post etc.

/Erik

Last edited by waldner; 12-27-06 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 12-27-06, 07:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12XU
Gee, I hope that "struggle to fit a French threaded BB" wasn't you cross threading the shell.
No cross threading, luckily! The "struggle" was more about finding the right tool to clean out the threads, only to have the left side cup "run out of threads", making it impossible to fit the lock ring. But after finding another pair of cups it all fits really nicely.
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Old 12-27-06, 07:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waldner
Thanks!

I'm building it up for street use primarily since there are no velodromes in Sweden anyway. My first thought was "No NJS parts, no Brooks saddle". In other words, I'm doing a functional and slightly BMX-inspired city beater rather than a classic restoration. Here are the parts I've got so far:

Handlebars and stem: 3ttt Pista
Wheels: Formula hubs on Mavic Open Pro rims
Crankset: Bulletproof
Chainring: Rocket Ring 46t
Saddle: White Selle Italia Turbo
Bottom bracket: Savoretti/Sakae
Headset: Shimano 105

Still have to decide on a cog, find a nice 26.0 mm seat post etc.

/Erik
Cool, I look forward to seeing it in the pictures thread when it's done.
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Old 12-27-06, 07:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiebrannan
why on earth would you hate someone trying to find out some information about what's clearly an interesting frame?

waldner as has been said classic and vintage may be able to help. otherwise there are several board members, sashae, ceya, 11.4, who have unbelievable troves of information on rare, esoteric or just plain odd bikes. a pm to them may well lead to insight. good luck - it's a nice looking bike, and i like curios.
Where did I say I hated anyone? Did I say it wasn't a nice looking frame?

That said, does this frame need to have a back story to be ridden and enjoyed?

*edit* The build sounds awesome by the way.
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Old 12-27-06, 07:51 PM   #10
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finding about the history behind my mystery frame was almost as much fun as building up the bike.
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Old 12-27-06, 10:29 PM   #11
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it almost looks like a keirin trainer
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Old 12-27-06, 10:41 PM   #12
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if at any point you decide you dont want to go with the white turbo pleaseeeeeeeee pm me . thanks .
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Old 12-27-06, 10:48 PM   #13
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I remember this auction and I think I even bid on it as I like the geometry on it and the lugs. I had planned to paint it because the photos in the auction looked really bad but your photos show that it isn't that crappy afterall.

What makes you think it is entry-level? The geometry is nice and tight and the lugs look sweet and the seat-cluster appears to embossed (can you take a shot of it, I'd like to see it), is it really heavy or something?
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Old 12-28-06, 02:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet sanchEz
What makes you think it is entry-level? The geometry is nice and tight and the lugs look sweet and the seat-cluster appears to embossed (can you take a shot of it, I'd like to see it), is it really heavy or something?
Well yes, it's a decently nice build, and not terribly heavy (weight is about the same as the Surly Steamroller frame that I was initially thinking about getting).

What still makes me think it's an entry level frame is that there are no clues on what tubing is used, and also the "F.Moser"-knock off decals don't give me a particularly serious impression although I think they're cool. But I could be wrong, of course.

Yes, the lettering at the seat cluster is embossed. It seems I forgot to include that picture in the first post. Here it is:

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Old 12-28-06, 03:16 AM   #15
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Honestly if it was built in Argentina then its worth it...and if it's anything like the skateboard trucks i bought there it is well manufactured, cheap as hell, and absolutely bomb proof.
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Old 12-28-06, 09:25 AM   #16
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that's a nice looking frame and fork.
do you have any pics with some wheels bolted on it so we can see how tight the geometry is?

i like the color too.
i hope it rides well for you once you get it built up.
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