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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 01-14-07, 07:23 PM   #1
Gyeswho
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What is a better hub: disc or thread-on?

I was thinking and looking at some hubs. i bought a new formula double fixed hub along with a deep v rim. had it built up and the next day i take it out for a ride and strip one side because i was carrying a lot. i had a surly 17t cog and dura lockring. took it to the bike shop, tried again and strip. now im using my other side that has a dura cog and lockring. my thing is i hope things dont happen the same way. so this leads to my ?
Is it better to have a disc hub for the lack of stripping that would happen or should i just upgrade and get a better hub? It seems discs also would keep the mind at ease more since the cog would be bolted down. What do yall say?
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Old 01-14-07, 07:52 PM   #2
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I might not have understood you 100%, so bear with me if I'm totally off here, but I guess you are thinking of using those drilled sprockets that you bolt onto the hub as if it was a diskbrake rotor, correct?

The problem I see here is that you have less choice as far as sprocket goes. Less variety in teeth number, and practically non-existent 1/8" width (only 3/32"). Also, those sprockets are quite a bit more expensive than thread-on.
However, this would be about the only serious disadvantage I can imagine. A sprocket bolted with 6 M5 bolts onto the hub should be a ****ing solid setup. It sounds so good I'm kinda thinking of going this route myself.

Hmmm....

Oh yeah: slight disadvantage: you won't have a flipflop wheel - but you probably won't care anyway, since replacing sprockets this way will be easy and quick. Other slight disadvantage: no freewheel support. Can't help you with that one, mate

Edit: actually, there is a solution to that problem: get one of those singlespeed hubs with diskbrake support. Bolted sprocket on the fixed side and freewheel on the other, and there you go. This kind of hubs aren't as cheap as a conventional freehub though.

Edit 2. heh... OK, so then it came to my mind that there are kits made by Surly and others, that will transform the freehub into a singlespeed. They are rather cheap, so with a Deore disc (non-centerlock, mind you) hub like the M525, and one of these sets, you should have the same functionality as a flipflop hub.

Last edited by wroomwroomoops; 01-14-07 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 01-14-07, 07:52 PM   #3
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carrying a lot has absolutely zero to do with the hub stripping. your hub stripped twice because the cog/lockring was poorly installed twice.
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Old 01-14-07, 08:07 PM   #4
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^^ agreed. You weren't using crappy components or incompatible components, so I would put the blame on whoever assembled them. A properly assembled threaded track setup should be neigh indestructible. While I see the appeal of the bolt-on cogs, until I have access to a machine shop to drill my own they're not really practical.
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Old 01-14-07, 08:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmg
You weren't using...incompatible components
That's what I would've thought too, except the last time I bought a Surly cog at my LBS they told me I had to use a Surly lockring with it. The other choice was a more expensive lockring, so it's not like they were trying to upsell me...and that's not something they'd do anyway. Has anyone else heard about this, and know if it's true or not?

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Old 01-14-07, 09:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by braingel
That's what I would've thought too, except the last time I bought a Surly cog at my LBS they told me I had to use a Surly lockring with it. The other choice was a more expensive lockring, so it's not like they were trying to upsell me...and that's not something they'd do anyway. Has anyone else heard about this, and know if it's true or nor?

the cog and lockring don't have to be the same brand...the only thing that matetrs for lockrings is that they match the threading on the hub..
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Old 01-14-07, 09:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyeswho
I was thinking and looking at some hubs. i bought a new formula double fixed hub along with a deep v rim. had it built up and the next day i take it out for a ride and strip one side because i was carrying a lot. i had a surly 17t cog and dura lockring. took it to the bike shop, tried again and strip. now im using my other side that has a dura cog and lockring. my thing is i hope things dont happen the same way. so this leads to my ?
Is it better to have a disc hub for the lack of stripping that would happen or should i just upgrade and get a better hub? It seems discs also would keep the mind at ease more since the cog would be bolted down. What do yall say?

I run that same hub cog lockring combo and mine has been running fine for almost a year now....i suppose you could have gotten a bad hub but my guess would be improper installation
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Old 01-14-07, 09:13 PM   #8
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So how long is it gonna be before a lot of companies are making more hubs that are specifically intended for bolt on cogs? For street use its much more logical.
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Old 01-14-07, 09:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathhare
So how long is it gonna be before a lot of companies are making more hubs that are specifically intended for bolt on cogs? For street use its much more logical.
Don't know the answer to that, but this is an opprtunity to post this link

http://www.63xc.com/tomchow/boonecog.htm

Except Boone, I don't know of other manufacturers (that are currently in business) that make such cogs.
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Old 01-14-07, 09:45 PM   #10
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If you want bolt-on and super-burly construction, go for a Level hub.

Past that, the LBS owes the OP a new hub, as the cog stripping has everything to do with bad installation and nothing to do with how much the rider is carrying. If it was just a matter of weight and torque, don't you think pro track racers would have moved on to a stronger system by now? I mean hell, those guys are absolute beasts...
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Old 01-15-07, 02:22 AM   #11
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FGG did a review of Level hubs a while ago: http://fixedgeargallery.com/reviews/...evel/index.htm
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Old 01-15-07, 02:39 AM   #12
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I suspect that the hub stripping has to do with improper installation.
That said, I ride a bolt-on and I don't see why you shouldn't
Boone makes drilled cogs, and apparently our very own Kogswell has (had?) some as well. Spicer too if we can believe Retem.

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Old 01-15-07, 02:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunts
FGG did a review of Level hubs a while ago: http://fixedgeargallery.com/reviews/...evel/index.htm
Looks like an excellent product, but the price tag is steep: I found this supplier offering it:
http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=117824

at $180 for the hub, and $48 to $56 for the sprocket alone, this is outside the reach of most cyclists. Heck, just a spacer is $42!


You can have an excellent conventional disc hub for much less, and the sprockets that I remember seeing, were around $30-$40.


Not sayin' the level hub isn't the cat's ass, because it is, but it's rather expensive.
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Old 01-15-07, 07:42 AM   #14
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I took one of those LeVel hubs in my hand... heavy duty!!! The cog looked like it would last forever. $280 for the hubset. I believe the cog comes with it. You can change the chainline by flipping the cog.
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Old 01-15-07, 07:45 AM   #15
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It comes with a cog
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Old 01-15-07, 12:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by exfreewheeler
I took one of those LeVel hubs in my hand... heavy duty!!! The cog looked like it would last forever. $280 for the hubset. I believe the cog comes with it. You can change the chainline by flipping the cog.
If you ask me, 2 or 3 different sized cogs, rims and spokes should come with it for $280. Seriously.
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Old 01-15-07, 03:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LóFarkas
If you ask me, 2 or 3 different sized cogs, rims and spokes should come with it for $280. Seriously.
Hey LóF, what were the names of those two companies that make discbrake-drilled sprockets?

(BTW: this guy is the one who introduced me to the discbrake sprockets - he made one by himself)
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Old 01-16-07, 01:28 AM   #18
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post #12 and there's one mentioned in my thread somewhere. Haven't seen Kogswell around lately but it's worth a PM.
Of course, if you know a machinist, it may be cheaper/simpler/easier to have one drilled.
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Old 01-16-07, 09:14 AM   #19
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level does make a solid hub, but customer service is crap. ask max-a-mill what he thinks of his level hub, he did have a unique problem with his!
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Old 01-16-07, 06:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LóFarkas
I suspect that the hub stripping has to do with improper installation.
So frankly, what does one need to keep in minds in order to perform a proper installation? I'm hoping to pick up hubs, cogs and a lock-ring at the post office any day now and I'd rather not strip the threads first thing...
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Old 01-16-07, 08:16 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by waldner
So frankly, what does one need to keep in minds in order to perform a proper installation? I'm hoping to pick up hubs, cogs and a lock-ring at the post office any day now and I'd rather not strip the threads first thing...
Grease the threads, tighten the cog, tighten the lockring. At this point it still won't be as tight as it ought to be. Go ride hard up a steep hill. This will get the cog tighter, much more so than you could get it with a chainwhip, and will effectively loosen the lockring. Now tighten the lockring again. Done!

What you really don't want is for there to be room between the hub and the lockring for the cog to come looose and move as you accelerate and skid. This is what causes stripping. The (simple) procedure above ensures that this won't happen as long as your hub cog and lockring are all good quality.
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Old 01-17-07, 03:20 AM   #22
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That's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Thank You!
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Old 01-18-07, 03:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LóFarkas
...and apparently our very own Kogswell has (had?) some as well.
We've got 16s and 18s.

Steel.

Made from Shimano-splined BMX cogs.

Then CNC drilled.

They work pretty well.

Nice chrome finish.

Someone on this list must have one.

You need to use a stack of about 3 M5 washers to get them square against the hub.

The chainline comes out to be about 54 on a 135mm hub.

If I could find someone to make a 120mm disc hub, I'd do it. But so far, no go. If I'm missing the obvious, pls advise.

Email us at info@kogswell.com if you want details - not supposed to advertise here.


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Old 01-18-07, 03:31 PM   #24
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Why not use a front hub for a 120mm use?
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Old 01-18-07, 04:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathhare
So how long is it gonna be before a lot of companies are making more hubs that are specifically intended for bolt on cogs? For street use its much more logical.
amen!

somebody get on this.

threaded may work well when properly installed, but i also know i have stripped a properly installed hub (granted it was a crappy suzue jr).

as for the level hub i have one and it works well. i will say though that i have to check the tension on those three bolts quite a bit. granted i haven't resorted to loctite yet, but these bolts just don't stay tight sometimes despite using grease on the threads. but then sometimes they stay tight for weeks... wierd stuff.

but anyway i think the 6 bolt disc is easy and awesome and all it needs is a good supplier of hubs.

or one of these days i'll just make my own.
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