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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 01-29-07, 11:59 AM   #1
snot69
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another bareknuckle question

Since we're on the topic of toe overlap, which I know the smaller size bareknuckles have serious issues with. Does anyone have overlap issues with the 56? I searched the forum and found only one answer to this question, and I'd like to hear responses from a few people. I'd be running meduium to large size clips and 165 cranks.
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Old 01-29-07, 12:01 PM   #2
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The pedals and clips will matter a lot. For example, a 53cm Angus is pretty close for overlap, but if you pick the right combo you won't have any. Maybe somebody will even know one that does work, or maybe it isn't even that close that you need to worry about it. Good luck, and if you find a combo that works, be sure to update us.
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Old 01-29-07, 12:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snot69
Since we're on the topic of toe overlap, which I know the smaller size bareknuckles have serious issues with. Does anyone have overlap issues with the 56? I searched the forum and found only one answer to this question, and I'd like to hear responses from a few people. I'd be running meduium to large size clips and 165 cranks.
I think you'll still have some/minor overlap with that setup. I run a 56 BK with 170mm cranks and L toeclips and I have a fair amount, but it's never really a problem. Get a frame with road dimensions if you're super worried about it.
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Old 01-29-07, 01:01 PM   #4
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My friend has a 54cm with 172.5 crank arms. I'm not sure what pedals and size cages[felt like medium] he has but he doesn't have any overlap.
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Old 01-29-07, 01:05 PM   #5
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I have a 54 bareknuckle with mks pedals and Size L mks clips with 165 cranks and yes I have a fair amount of overlap. I actually have quite a bit
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Old 01-29-07, 01:09 PM   #6
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People - these are track bikes, meant for the track. They will have toe overlap because of the choices in geometry and fork rake. On the track, you rarely if ever need to corner like you do in the street. So the choice is obvious - get a frame with road-style geometry or spend money on a fork that might be more forgiving in the area of overlap.

Team Neal has it right - go with something that wil fall outside the track geometry range, like a road geometry-based bike. Most smaller frames will have toe overlap of some sort.
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Old 01-29-07, 01:20 PM   #7
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<insert whiny voice> . . .but, but I want my 75 degree head angle with 30mm rake fork track frame to ride like butter and have no toe overlap when I make slow speed turns at the local hang spot. . . why won't these f-ing frame builders understand my pain? <sniff, sniff>

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Old 01-29-07, 02:41 PM   #8
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Can someone explain overlap and the reason it's needed or not needed?
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Old 01-29-07, 02:45 PM   #9
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Sorry

Quote:
Originally Posted by [165]
People - these are track bikes, meant for the track. They will have toe overlap because of the choices in geometry and fork rake. On the track, you rarely if ever need to corner like you do in the street. So the choice is obvious - get a frame with road-style geometry or spend money on a fork that might be more forgiving in the area of overlap.

Team Neal has it right - go with something that wil fall outside the track geometry range, like a road geometry-based bike. Most smaller frames will have toe overlap of some sort.

I'm well aware of this I just want to know how much overlap people who own 56cm bareknuckles on this forum tend to have to deal with. A simple question and I'm just looking for simple answers.
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Old 01-29-07, 02:48 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by snot69
I'm just looking for simple answers.
aren't we all....
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Old 01-29-07, 02:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snot69
I'm well aware of this I just want to know how much overlap people who own 56cm bareknuckles on this forum tend to have to deal with. A simple question and I'm just looking for simple answers.
Nothing's simple my friend.

Things to factor:
-Crank length
-Type of pedal system you are using
-Position of cleat on shoe
-How big are your feet
-What size tire you plan to run

Unless you take the bike out for a ride, YOU won't know.

Generalization, the Barenuckle will have less toe overlap than a pure track bike with virtually no clearance between tire and downtube.
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Old 01-29-07, 03:03 PM   #12
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I ride a 56 BK and have very little toe overlap. I use clipless pedals and with 175 cranks. My toes touch my tire very little and it really isn't a problem at all.
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Old 01-29-07, 03:06 PM   #13
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there are no simple answers, that is the reality. The simple answer is get a road bike. Or get a custom fork with appropriate rake to avoid toe-verlap. Or get a frame "meant" for street riding - like the Surly, etc...

In all honesty, I have never seen someone eat asphalt due to toe-verlap - that does not mean it won't happen as I am sure it has already.
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Old 01-29-07, 03:09 PM   #14
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just did

BTW [165], what is verlap? Is it the one-eyed cousin to burlap?
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Old 01-29-07, 03:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exfreewheeler
Can someone explain overlap and the reason it's needed or not needed?

When your foot is in the 3 o'clock position, your toes will overlap the diameter of your front wheel. If you are making a sharp turn at low speed, your foot can hit the wheel. With a freewheel, you can leave your foot out of the way and coast through the turn but with a fixie you can't.

It is desirous of track bikes that their geometry has a short wheelbase with high-angled headtube and seattube. This produces the overlap. Road bikes and touring bikes even more so, have longer wheelbases for stability and comfort but even they can have some overlap, particularly on the smaller sized frames.
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Old 01-29-07, 03:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbattle
When your foot is in the 3 o'clock position, your toes will overlap the diameter of your front wheel. If you are making a sharp turn at low speed, your foot can hit the wheel. With a freewheel, you can leave your foot out of the way and coast through the turn but with a fixie you can't.

It is desirous of track bikes that their geometry has a short wheelbase with high-angled headtube and seattube. This produces the overlap. Road bikes and touring bikes even more so, have longer wheelbases for stability and comfort but even they can have some overlap, particularly on the smaller sized frames.
Thanks... great explanation!

As a newbie in fixed gear, I want to know this.

I don't think I would have this problem being that my new frame(be here in a couple of days) is proportionate to my body.

But I want to know stuff like this.

Just like when I posted the chainline thread - explanations like this open the door to understanding the detailed explanations.
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Old 01-29-07, 04:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auk
just did

BTW [165], what is verlap? Is it the one-eyed cousin to burlap?
say it as one word "toeverlap"

now a Northern Kentuckian like yourself auk, might say it like "to-everlap" - and that would be wrong.

"Toe-verlap" = toe overlap, in Reader's Digest form.
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Old 01-29-07, 11:06 PM   #18
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Coffee is now on the keyboard.
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Old 01-29-07, 11:29 PM   #19
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I rock a 52ck Bareknuckle with an Ultegra 165 road crank (save your hissing for the end, trackheads), cheapo cage pedals and large Soma toeclips. I have so much toe-verlap that my heels scrape on my front wheel's axle nuts.
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Old 01-30-07, 12:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auk

Generalization, the Barenuckle will have less toe overlap than a pure track bike with virtually no clearance between tire and downtube.
Generally speaking, the BK is a pretty pure track bike. The head tube is 75 degrees and the fork rake is 35mm. Pretty standard for a track bike.

For the most part, toe overlap comes from a couple of factors. Track bikes have steep head tubes to make the bikes stiff and to handle the extra load the banked turns will put on the headset. In order to make the bikes stable at high speeds, the trail needs to be increased, which is accomplished by moving the hub closer to the frame.
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Old 01-30-07, 02:56 AM   #21
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Why does the BK have a 73 degree seat tube on the larger sizes? That's roadie geometry, right? Funny that a Soma Rush is a more aggressive '75/75'. So, I take it other factors - such as the super-high bottom bracket - matter more?
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Old 01-30-07, 06:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnee
Why does the BK have a 73 degree seat tube on the larger sizes? That's roadie geometry, right? Funny that a Soma Rush is a more aggressive '75/75'.

Move your seat forward ~1 cm and there is no difference.
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Old 01-30-07, 09:53 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnee
Why does the BK have a 73 degree seat tube on the larger sizes?
Because taller people have longer legs and so the saddle needs to be a bit further back (in relation to BB). In order to do this, you slacken the ST angle a bit.

The counter example is to look at road or touring bikes in small sizes - the ST is steeper than you would expect to get the short person's saddle a bit further forward.
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Old 01-30-07, 10:07 AM   #24
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my road bike has overlap and my angus doesn't (clipless, but I have giant feet). what now 165!?
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Old 01-30-07, 10:14 AM   #25
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Go custom


(and it really does not matter as much on a road bike since you have the ability to COAST through a turn to avoid overlap issues)
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