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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 02-21-07, 09:24 AM   #1
veggiemafia
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Miche hubs: a couple questions.

So, thanks to Spocalc and a mechanic at the LBS, I didn't have to do any of this, but it got me wondering, how does one measure the different dimensions of hubs for calculating spoke length? I mean, measuring the flange diameter is simple enough, but I'm thinking of measuring the width from center to flange. Is that the center of the hub body, or is it the center as it would sit between the dropouts (thus, accomodating a little bit of dish on the rear)?

Also, advantages to the Miche cog carrier system thing? Disadvantages? Just buy Miche cogs in the sizes you need, Loctite the carrier onto the hub and forget about it?
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Old 02-21-07, 09:28 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiemafia
Also, advantages to the Miche cog carrier system thing? Disadvantages?
advantages:
Super easy to change cogs.
Disadvantages:
Splines may wear out if you are riding it on the street.

General consensus:
Great for track use where you are switching cogs three or four times a night, bad for street use where you are leaving cogs on for months at a time.
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Old 02-21-07, 09:46 AM   #3
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iv been working on mine for about 9 months now, laced 4cross to cxp22's no problems at all.
theyre not the smoothest running hubs in the world after that long on ****ty dublin streets, the only thing i can say is get different track nuts cos the miche ones will rip the arse off your drop outs.
about the cog system, i completely ditched their system and went for a surly cog and D-A lockring.
i heard that their cogs bend and warp into the carrier system so its harder to get them out of the system to change it-but i dont have experience with that.
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Old 02-21-07, 09:50 AM   #4
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I've had a miche hubset on one of my bikes for a couple of years now - they've been ridden through several winters and the stock bearings are still spinning quite smoothly. At the time I bought them - pre-Formula/novatec/dimension track hub boom - they were the best balance of price/performance/looks that I could find in the drilling that I needed (28h). I think I paid $85 for the pair from an eBay seller (Italtecno, maybe?).

My main beefs with them:
1) 14mm track nuts. Silly, silly, silly. I replaced the rears with 15mm nuts after I split one a year or two ago so now I have to carry two wrenches around. Awesome. From what I understand, Miche might've switched to 15mm nuts on newer revisions.
2) Axles are not stainless. Mine are rusty and I'm not even sure I could get them open to swap out the bearings if I needed to. This might also be something they've addressed in the last few years.

Older versions than mine (maybe the black low flange ones...?) didn't even have standard threaded axles which made finding new nuts even more difficult.

Were I in a position to buy 28h hubs again, I would probably get the Miches without hesitation. The market has changed a lot in the last couple of years and there are a lot of other options in the low-priced track hub dept. If nothing else, they look MUCH nicer than the other options at that price point, at least imo.

fwiw, I've never used the carrier, but a friend of mine used one with a Phil hub on his work bike for a couple of years without any problems. ymmv.
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Old 02-21-07, 09:51 AM   #5
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iirc, they no longer use 14mm tracknuts. they've changed to 15mm
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Old 02-21-07, 09:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queerpunk
iirc, they no longer use 14mm tracknuts. they've changed to 15mm
Yeah. Mine are most definitely 15mm.
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Old 02-21-07, 09:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiemafia
I mean, measuring the flange diameter is simple enough, but I'm thinking of measuring the width from center to flange. Is that the center of the hub body, or is it the center as it would sit between the dropouts (thus, accomodating a little bit of dish on the rear)?
Centred as it sits on the bike. You can't measure it directly. Take the overall dropout-to-dropout width of the hub. Divide that by half, that's your baseline number. For each side, measure from the dropout to the flange, and subtract that from the baseline to get the centre-to-flange distance. It doesn't have to be terribly accurate cos that dimension makes little difference to the spoke length.
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Old 02-21-07, 10:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiemafia
Yeah. Mine are most definitely 15mm.
Are your axles stainless?
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Old 02-21-07, 10:31 AM   #9
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Mine came with 14mm nuts. I bought 15mm to match the front (Promax) so I wouldn't need to cary 2 wrenches.

It's a great hub on par with the Promax. I have the cog carrier system too. I don't think I would have chosen it, but it came with the hub in an ebay auction. I put the lockring on good and tight when I set the bike up, and haven't touched it since. I use a front brake. I think it would be more prone to develop play if you skid or use back-pressure a lot.
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Old 02-21-07, 10:44 AM   #10
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www.dtswiss.com. go to their spoke calculator, and while i don't think the miches are in there, there should be very detailed instructions on how to measure everything properly. fwiw, i love my miche hubs. butter.
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Old 02-21-07, 11:28 AM   #11
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I bought the cog-carrier system because:

A. I got a great deal on the ebay for it.
B. Miche uses Italian threading for their cog threading. Now, standard english threading is only marginally different, but that's why you'll hear stories about people stripping out their Miche hub with a DA cog. (At least, this is what I remember reading on the internet.)
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Old 02-21-07, 11:52 AM   #12
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i like mine a lot. they're a little noisy, but totally smooth. but my axles are totally rusty and i split a 14mm track nut. need to get some 15's. i ride brakeless (now) with an EAI 17t cog. no problems whatsoever. i'd like to check out the cog carrier system, i know very little about it. but these hubs really are worth it for the money. i can't remember exactly what they weight, but i've got 'em laced to deep v's and i think the rear weigh clocks in around 1100-1200 grams.

if i were to build up a track-only wheelset and couldn't spring for dura ace or something comparable, i'd go with these on a really light rim. and if anybody starts anodyzing them, miche will totally explode.
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Old 02-21-07, 12:14 PM   #13
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veggiemafia, i don't see a need to use red loctite. it will stay on just like a normal cog would, and if it ever gets damaged, you're gonna want to be able to remove it.

i have a wheel built on a miche front hub. it's very nice.
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Old 02-21-07, 12:15 PM   #14
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Veggieman...

Are you building those wheels up yourself?
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Old 02-21-07, 12:20 PM   #15
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I bought a pair of Miche hubs last October. They came with 15mm tracknuts, but the axles are definately not stainless and have developed quite a bit of rust. I don't use the cog carrier so I cant comment on that. Generally I like them, they are smooth, good looking and seem pretty solid.

mcatano, why can't you get into the hubs to change bearings? Is it because the locknuts and/or cones are rusted tight? Does anyone have ideas about how to prevent this (other than not riding in the rain)?
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Old 02-21-07, 01:31 PM   #16
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all i can say is i've been running miche primatos for a long time and love them. they're durable. i'm all about things that are tanks that'll last forever, and the primatos...i'm starting to think they may never die.
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Old 02-21-07, 04:23 PM   #17
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OK...here we go:

1. Yes, I am building these wheels myself. 3x with silver DT Champion spokes to MSW blue Deep Vs (they were cheap on eBay, I swear I'm not a hipster). I'm building them on Saturday, and with any luck SingleSpeeDemon is picking up my Rush frame and fork at the powdercoater on Friday to be delivered to me on Sunday or Monday. After that, I'll need a saddle, stem, brake and lever, pedals, headset. All of this stuff is being eBayed/dumpster dived/sold to me cheap by a friendly forum member who has a front brake they're not using?!?!!?! currently.

2. Axle is not stainless.

3. Italian threading=ISO threading? Or isn't it like ISO=34.928mm, Italian=35mm or something. Just curious.

4. Everybody has had good experiences running Surly/Soma/EAI cogs on these hubs?

Thanks everybody! It's times like this when no one has mentioned top tube pads or Chrome bags or why you should/shouldn't ride brakeless/with a brake on the sidewalk/in traffic for messenger work/commuting to art school you stupid art school kid that make me love BFSSFG.
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Old 02-21-07, 04:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiemafia

4. Everybody has had good experiences running Surly/Soma/EAI cogs on these hubs?
eai and dura-ace i've used, and they work great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiemafia
no one has mentioned top tube pads or Chrome bags or why you should/shouldn't ride brakeless/with a brake on the sidewalk/in traffic for messenger work/commuting to art school you stupid art school kid .
now you have.
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Old 02-21-07, 04:34 PM   #19
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now you have.
Awww man.

Hara-kiri for me, then.
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Old 02-21-07, 04:39 PM   #20
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I've run Phil cogs on them for a while now.

no complaints.
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Old 02-21-07, 07:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattlebag
mcatano, why can't you get into the hubs to change bearings? Is it because the locknuts and/or cones are rusted tight? Does anyone have ideas about how to prevent this (other than not riding in the rain)?
To be fair, I haven't ever had to try to swap the bearings, so I have no idea if they're actually rusted solid or not. But yes, the cones are quite rusty. As for how to prevent it? I'm not really sure... maybe slather them in Phil grease every few weeks?
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Old 02-22-07, 05:53 AM   #22
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I bought a set of Miche Primato's new about 6 months ago, and the front is 14mm and the rear 15mm track nuts.

They actually came shipped with one 14mm and one 15mm on the front hub, that was swapped out by the supplier.

Although a 15mm will fit onto the front axle, surely you are risking stripping out the axle or nuts threads by fitting a 15mm nut onto a 14mm axle?

I use the cog carrier system, and really like it. I mainly ride track, and it is nice to not need to use a chainwhip to change cogs.
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Old 02-22-07, 06:11 AM   #23
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Surly cog is also good
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Old 02-22-07, 08:51 AM   #24
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+1 for lacing wheels yourself.

I've got a cheap front caliper brake, 26.8 (I think) seatpost and nice quill stem (110mm maybe?) that'll be stripped off my current bike in about a week. PM me, I'm looking for bottle cages, fenders and beer.
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Old 02-22-07, 09:46 AM   #25
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My experience with Miche hubs ...

Front hubs use a 14mm nut.
Rear hubs use a 15mm nut.

I ride with Dura-Ace cogs and a Miche lockring.
Excellent.

When it comes to dishing, in my experience, there isn't anything better than putting the wheel in the dropouts (w/o the tire) and adjusting it by eye. That is assuming you have the correct initial spoke lengths. +-1mm.
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