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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 02-21-07, 12:38 PM   #1
adamsallez
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Dura Ace Track Pedals & Double Straps

I have a set of DuraAce track pedals (the old school quill ones), and a set of Kashimax Dual Sprint Double Straps....How are these supposed to be routed through the pedals? There is only one hole for a strap in the pedals! Any photos would be rad!
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Old 02-21-07, 12:43 PM   #2
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Are you talking about the 7400s?




Seriously though these pedals suck without cleats if that was your plan.
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Old 02-21-07, 12:48 PM   #3
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Get creative with zip ties.
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Old 02-21-07, 12:49 PM   #4
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Yes, the 7400's. I cannot see from that photo how they are to be routed....thanks for the attempt though!
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Old 02-21-07, 12:51 PM   #5
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criss cross through the holes in the cleat plate.
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Old 02-21-07, 01:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutret
criss cross through the holes in the cleat plate.
There was a picture of this on here somewhere, I remember it...

Google Rules!

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Old 02-21-07, 01:06 PM   #7
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God, that looks liek ****e!
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Old 02-21-07, 01:17 PM   #8
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I rode 600's for a while, if you ain't got the cleats...not the greatest pedals
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Old 02-21-07, 01:19 PM   #9
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oh it's not crisscrossed. It looks like a waste of time unless you are a world class sprinter. Just use single straps they are more then secure enough for those of us that don't spend 12 hours a week in the gym and more on roids then housing.
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Old 02-21-07, 03:43 PM   #10
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If you're racing in the power events (sprint/kilo/team sprint) these pedals are great. For everyone else, they last forever but are a bit overkill. The choice between single and double toestraps is more one of comfort than security. Modern laminated toe straps basically hold you really well insofar as they don't break and don't stretch, but you have to strap your foot in pretty tight so you don't lift your cleat off the pedal and come loose. For some people a single strap just creates a pressure point that becomes very uncomfortable, and a double strap is more comfortable. The double strap helps secure the forefront of the foot a bit better, but with 7400's and the matching cleat that's largely irrelevant because the cleats lock into the pedals and don't allow any forefoot motion.

As far as lacing double straps goes, you choose the way that puts the straps where they hold your feet the best and don't create pressure points on your foot. The three basic methods are:

1. The rear strap goes through the loops like a single strap would, and the front strap simply goes under the front of the pedal, wraps around the foot, and goes over the top of the toe clip. For small feet this is often the best approach, or if you have bigger feet and like to keep your cleats fairly back on your foot.
2. As illustrated above, the front strap goes through the loops like a single strap would, and the rear strap goes into one hole on the back plate, out the other hole, then wraps around your foot. Typically the front strap goes over the toe clip and the rear strap goes through the toe clip loop, but occasionally people do it differently.
3. In a variation of #2 and usually a bit better, run the front strap into the outside of the pedal (just like for a single strap) but pull it out through the inside hole on the back plate, up around the shoe, and through the toe clip loop. The rear strap goes under the foot behind the pedal, goes into the outside hole on the backplate and through the strap slot on the inside of the pedal, and then up and over the toe clip.

#3 is a little neater and keeps the straps from bearing at an angle on your foot as much.

It helps in any of these cases to connect the two straps somewhere up on top. Kashimax double straps come with a square patch with four slots (two for each strap) but you can make a nicer one with a scrap of nice thick leather from a cobbler and a little work with an exacto knife. These are more to manage strap pressure on the top of your foot than to position the straps.

Remember that on the track you basically strap in and stay that way, and you have the time to get your feet into the pedals and strapped down. If you are considering this setup on the road, you simply can't tighten up and unstrap enough with double straps every time you stop for a light. For that kind of application, this is poseur behavior. Frankly on the road, clipless pedals with cleats are really the nicest. If you don't want to use cleats, then use a classic frame pedal like the various MKS models, because you can't get 7400 toe clips any longer and the pedals are outrageously expensive.

The SPD-R's are a nice alternative and easy to set up with a single or double strap, but they have the problem that not many shoes are still available with SPD-R drilling -- and you can't mount the cleats without the proper drilling. And SPD-R pedals are getting really expensive as well. I use them and love them, but you have to hunt for shoes, custom modify the pedals, and sometimes have to look for cleats and pedals. At least they are bulletproof so once you find a pair you'll never have to find another. They look ugly with scratches from the cleats right away but nothing stops them from working well.
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Old 02-21-07, 04:03 PM   #11
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WOW! 11.4 you are RAD! I got the pedals locally, NOS for $150...which seemed pretty good! I am going for a DuraAce Track theme! I have the 7710 Cranks, BB, and 47t Chainring, Old School DA Headset, and the Pedals....so I figred it was worth it. The straps of course and TOTALLY overkill, btu I actually got a great deal from Ben's Cycle, since I bought esentially allt he parts, besides the pedals from them...tehy ended up being like $125. Still SUPER pricey. This is a street bike, but I will be riding it on the track off and on! Esentially I just like to **** money down the drain. Hi, My names Adam, and I'm addicted to NJS!
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Old 02-21-07, 04:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by business cycles
Dura-Ace 7400 pedals - New, old stock. Includes toe clips (size L) and set of PD-64 cleats - $379.50.
Shimano PD-64 cleats - $49.50/pair
I would say you got a good deal. Regardless of cost unless you want to start using cleats those pedals blow a lot. Probably the worst clip and strap pedal I have *ever* ridden on regardless of price. The narrow center and front just doesn't support your foot... I would go so far as to say they nearly unsuable.

It would be a shame is you wasted them(the clips are close to being irreplaceable these days) since they are in such high demand from certain luddite sprinters. And waste is all it will be. They aren't even an appropriate pedal for a points racer anymore and I can't stress enough how much they suck on the street.
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Old 02-21-07, 04:53 PM   #13
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Strange opinion. I have owned these pedals before, on my Pista Concept, but with single straps. I loved them to death compared to my Super Records I previously had on the bike. I felt that my foot felt WAY more solid, and much more supported, when riding in street shoes.
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Old 02-21-07, 04:57 PM   #14
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Well there are also people who find track drops the most comfortable bar option so apparently tricking yourself into thinking something works well to justify your aesthetic choices is pretty easy for some people.
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Old 02-21-07, 04:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsallez
Hi, My names Adam, and I'm addicted to NJS!
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I wish I had your problems.

"God damn! I just can't seem to spend all this money I have lying around! **** me!"
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Old 02-21-07, 05:06 PM   #16
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so these pedals are designed to use clipless shoes with cleats? But then why the toe clip? Him confused.
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Old 02-21-07, 05:10 PM   #17
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Old 02-21-07, 05:25 PM   #18
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I'm running rx-1's with the same technique, and it's awesome.
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Old 02-21-07, 05:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taken67
so these pedals are designed to use clipless shoes with cleats? But then why the toe clip? Him confused.
Back when dinosaurs roamed the velodrome and the paris-roubaix corridor, there were cleats that fit the shape of the pedal but didn't have any sort of spring loaded retaining mechanism or anything like that, just two pieces that made good mechanical contact and then straps for holding the operation down/together. The clip itself doesn't do a whole heck of a lot in this setup, the cleat is taking all the forward force so the clip is mostly there to position the straps. This went out of fashion when clipless pedals got good, cheap, and popular, though there are still some old-school adherents. The morons at Turin in Evanston, IL sold my newbie friend a setup like this two years ago because they did a poor job of explaining to him how clipless works and that it's totally safe.

Edit: I would add that while there are plenty of people out there riding them in chucks and vans and stuff, these pedals are generally very uncomfortable without cleats, as dutret is saying about this particular pedal.

Last edited by Landgolier; 02-21-07 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 02-21-07, 05:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landgolier
Back when dinosaurs roamed the velodrome and the paris-roubaix corridor, there were cleats that fit the shape of the pedal but didn't have any sort of spring loaded retaining mechanism or anything like that, just two pieces that made good mechanical contact and then straps for holding the operation down/together. The clip itself doesn't do a whole heck of a lot in this setup, the cleat is taking all the forward force so the clip is mostly there to position the straps. This went out of fashion when clipless pedals got good, cheap, and popular, though there are still some old-school adherents. The morons at Turin in Evanston, IL sold my newbie friend a setup like this two years ago because they did a poor job of explaining to him how clipless works and that it's totally safe.
Thanks! Good to know.
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Old 02-22-07, 02:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutret
Well there are also people who find track drops the most comfortable bar option so apparently tricking yourself into thinking something works well to justify your aesthetic choices is pretty easy for some people.
My wife loves her Dura Ace PD-7400s. She says they are by far the best clip/strap combo shes used and she doesn't give two hoots about asthetics (considering that she also had a choice of Suntour Superbes as well as old Campy and Specialized track pedals).

I personally find the 7400s uncomfortable so once again we prove the whole different strokes to different folks theory.
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Old 02-22-07, 02:57 AM   #22
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A guy I used to ride with had the 600 version of those pedals. He taped a strip of wood to the inside of the rear cage. That way it reduced pressure in that area and made them alot more comfortable when not using the cleats.
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Old 02-22-07, 07:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fixedpip
My wife loves her Dura Ace PD-7400s. She says they are by far the best clip/strap combo shes used and she doesn't give two hoots about asthetics (considering that she also had a choice of Suntour Superbes as well as old Campy and Specialized track pedals).
How does her picking by far the most aesthetically striking pedal prove and in my mind the most pleasing prove that at all?

I can see how theoretically they could be worthwhile for a girl with small feet but I have incredibly small feet for a dude and they are way to narrow for me. Also said girl would have to miraculously find some small clips for them or her foot would never be positioned correctly.
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Old 02-22-07, 10:43 AM   #24
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Not quite responding to the query about toe clips, but FYI if you are considering these pedals:

The clips are almost completely unavailable. They show up occasionally on eBay and elsewhere. I have a stash I got before they completely disappeared. And the only clips you typically ever see are size L (which are like a medium in any other toe clip, and can be slid forwards and backwards so they actually fit quite small feet -- on the other end, a size 43 is probably about the biggest they'll fit). There are some plastic clips made for the lower-end pedals of that era that will fit, but the mounting is much thicker and the PD-64 cleats won't lock in properly. (On that note, many 7400 pedals were shipped with the little V-shaped bracket on the front that was made for the first version of the PD-64 cleats. The little tabs on those cleats that lock under the bracket were too thin and broke frequently, so Shimano thickened them up. However, to use those cleats you have to get the new bracket that shipped with the later pedals -- it has more clearance underneath.)

You don't really want to ride toe straps on them without the clips on the road, since the main function of the toe clips is to hold the straps in place (with cleats holding your foot in position, the idea is actually for your shoes not to touch the front of the toe clips so you don't cut the shoes on the metal). On the track, where you aren't flipping in and out all the time, it isn't really necessary to have clips. You buy some toe clearance (especially, you avoid some sharp-edged steel toe clips touching the sidewalls of some very light track tubulars) and you don't have to worry about finding clips if you wear big shoes. The way the front of the matching Shimano PD-64 cleat locks into the pedal, you don't have to worry about your feet flopping around or clicking on the front of the pedal. This is really only practical on the track, however.
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