the_don

I don't think that crash was caused by no brakes, hey was hammering it along and the car just slowly pulled out in front of him. I would have thought the car was going to stop too.

i think I would have slowed down knowing that a car is being stupid and pulling out in front of me. I go by the rule of, if it is a 2 ton lump of metal, be wary of what it is doing. Because it is not them who will get hurt, and I have had enough of bad crashes.

dsh

Seems like with an "oh ****" brake he could have bled enough speed to take the side street instead of trying to go on the sidewalk, or at least not eaten it quite so hard.

Seems like, anyway.

exhumed

I was at those gold sprints and remember that kid. I think he was the second fastest there.

adriano 

a brake you say? it would have averted the entire fiasco you say? that would be too uncool.

devilshaircut

1) That was totally the driver's fault.

2) I have zero qualms about this bike being brakeless. Maybe you guys didn't notice, but this guy likes to do tricks ... and I would guess barspins/tailwhips/etc. are included in this.

IMO you guys fixate on the brakeless thing way too much. Be less angry than this cyclist who obviously knows how to handle his bike and more angry at the motorist who clearly doesn't know the first thing about driving. If the biker had been driving a car, that motorist would have been t-boned pretty bad.

adriano 

i hope you dont count on others to always do what theyre supposed to do when your life in on the line. he made a choice to ride without brakes and is accountable for that risk.

dsh

Wasn't fixating, just pointing out that he could have avoided majorly effing up is bike if he'd been riding a brake.

And the bike he wrecked had drops, so I'm assuming he wasn't going barspinz with it.

And if the biker had been driving a car, he'd have hit the brakes and stopped.

I agree that calling brakeless riders stupid or blaming every crash on the lack of brakes is wrong, but this just happened to be a crash that could have been avoided.

Also, yes, it was 100% the driver's fault. Hope he made him pay for the new wheels.

devilshaircut

I ride the streets.

Obviously all drivers are tards.

^ Even if that is an untrue statement, it should be the one that guides you while street riding.

But the blame still lies in the motorist ... look at the accident objectively. I'm sure you realize that if it were a two-car accident, the dude making the turn would be in the wrong. The fact that it was a bike/car accident is irrelevant in establishing who is at fault.

Anyhow, I am not saying cyclists shouldn't be alert. They should.

All I am saying is that everyone has fixated on what the cyclist could have done to prevent the accident.

No one is recognizing that the driver could have prevented the entire fiasco by being not ********.

exhumed

What if he blew through a stop sign? It's hard to see if there was one in the video, but it looks like the SUV stopped at a sign and then went but hesitated when he saw the guys riding down.

devilshaircut

I didn't see a stop sign. If there was one though, yeah, it would be the cyclist's fault, and the driver would have just been dumb.

devilshaircut

Last tricks competition I went to, I saw 3 different people tailwhip a tall bike. I guess I should have said footjam tailwhip to be specific. Anyhow, tricks that require brakelessness if you failed to see the point.

adriano 

TRaffic Jammer

Well he did make it out OK, but he simply shoulda zigged instead of zagging. Carve in the direction the danger is coming from not the direction it's heading. Fun video , he's got some chops on his bikes.

dsh

...
Looks like I may have been wrong though.
Watching it again, pretty sure that intersection was a 4-way stop.

Yeah definitely looks like there was a stop sign on the other side of the tree. Biker's fault, brakes or not.

devilshaircut

I can't tell what that is. If it is a stop sign, as I said before, it is the biker's fault.

In that case, the cyclist is a tard, and this has nothing to with brakes, STILL. You don't cruise in front of a car with the right of way whether you have a brake or not.

EDIT: In other words, call him a tard for riding in front of a car, not for not having a brake. My point is that everyone is fixating on an issue because it is incendiary, not because it is relevant in the event in question. Call him a tard for swerving right instead of swerving left. All of these are better points to fixate on over the brakelessness.

adriano 

why did he swerve?

he couldnt stop.

devilshaircut

Why did he need to swerve in the first place?

Because he didn't follow a basic traffic law (if that is a stop sign).

dsh

Devilshaircut: You're smart enough to know that, even if a rider is completely faultless in a situation, it is still possible that he or she could have taken precautions to prevent it.

In the situation from the video (if we assume there was no stop sign), even though the rider is entirely faultless, and the driver was in the wrong, the rider wouldn't have crashed as badly if he'd been riding a brake.

Completely without fault. He did nothing wrong. But if he'd had a brake, he wouldn't have wrecked so badly.

He also wouldn't have busted his head if he'd been wearing a helmet, but that's another discussion.

adriano 

he couldnt stop.

devilshaircut

Of course, I agree, with a brake, the accident would have been less severe.

What I am saying is that there are 2-3 other more relevant factors that everyone seemed to overlook because brakeless riding is a more incendiary topic. One of which was the lack of helmet which only now is being brought up.

devilshaircut

No, I am saying, he wouldn't need to swerve to miss, or applied brakes to lessen the impact at all, if he had yielded at the 4-way stop as traffic regulations state. How he would have stopped is irrelevant. The fact is, with any braking mechanism, if he were a conscientious cyclist, he would have stopped.

EDIT: The point is, failing to slow down at intersections where it is your responsibility to stop or slow down >>> riding brakeless.

dsh

That's true. This is a discussion board, after all. Discussion is the goal.

I don't think anyone will disagree that the car driver could have been more vigilant.
I don't think anyone will disagree that it would have been wiser to zig like his friend than zag into the curb.
I don't think anyone will disagree that, if there was a stop sign, it's the biker's fault.
I don't think anyone will disagree that his head injury would have been prevented by a helmet.

Saying the crash could have been avoided if brakes were used? Look at all the discussion that has produced.

adriano 

the not jackass bfssfg poseur tarck bicyclist of the day 6/19/09 is devilshaircut.

devilshaircut

Dsh, if that was a stop sign then you are exactly right, and in fact, I wouldn't consider the driver at fault at all. Of course, it is dumb to ride your car into someone ... but that doesn't mean the motorist had any responsibility to yield at that point. Vice-versa if that is not a stop sign.

As far as I can tell, these are the things people overlooked in favor of another brakeless flame:

- When riding, if you need to swerve, it is generally a good idea to swerve left, even if it means coming close to oncoming traffic. It's good to be on the left in general, actually. Funny, laws state you have to ride the on the right where I live (and in most places, as far as I know).
- He wasn't wearing a helmet, and this is exactly the kind of impact a helmet would have been useful for.
- He didn't obey the traffic sign.

And those are things you should be doing at a minimum. Other things that I think are common sense and more important than having a brake:

- Looking at drivers to see what they intend to do. I avoid most dicey situations by doing this.
- Slow down before intersections (plenty of drivers completely ignore stop signs at 4-way stops).

But something I would point out is that obviously, they were doing footage for a video, so I can kind of understand why the cyclist risked it. Kind of a pain to have to keep retaking footage.

This just seems pointlessly incendiary for the sake of beating a dead horse. Or worse, so all the people who feel brakeless riders are dumb can beat each other off.

adriano 

what a day!