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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 05-19-03, 01:36 PM   #1
RainmanP
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Fixed cog using bb lockring?

I have a basic flip flop wheel with one side threaded for track lockring, the other side straight freewheel thread. I am using the side with track lockring threads and feel secure with it. When I bought the next smaller cog, my LBS put the old cog on the freewheel side using a bb lockring. I realize that this is not an unusual setup, but I have never had the confidence to use that arrangement nor have I really had a need to. Is anyone actually using the cog/bb lockring setup on a regular basis? Has anyone ever had one come loose? I have always figured that it would be VERY difficult to get a bb lockring locked tight enough against the cog to reliably withstand the stress of resisting the forward motion when stopping. I do know how to tighten lockrings/locknuts against each other. If these were two nuts that I could get box end wrenches on I might feel pretty good about it. I am not as comfortable with being able to get a good firm grip on the notch and tooth arrangement of a bb lockring and spanner, even with the Park that engages three notches.

Any thoughts on this?
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Old 05-19-03, 01:55 PM   #2
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I run this on my Surly 1x1 hub on my mountain bike. It hasn't come loose and I use it on some pretty steep off-road stuff.

The way I set it up was to put the cog on, then install the chain and stand on the pedals with the brakes locked up to really tighten that thing down. Then, lock-tite the BB ring on and tighten down as much as possible.

Just as a safety measure, I would run a front brake with this set up (actually I also do on my fixed road bike with a "proper" set up)
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Old 05-20-03, 07:38 AM   #3
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I would not trust that set-up.

If you put brakes on it ok, but if you really put some serious back pedal pressure on your pedals, the sprocket is going to come loose!
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Old 05-20-03, 09:42 AM   #4
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I had a setup like that for awhile...No problems.
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Old 05-20-03, 10:01 AM   #5
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I put 1500 miles on an old dura ace hub just using a BB lockring. Right after I started riding it I felt the cog tighten on a sprint so I snugged up the lock ring when I got back and never felt it shift while braking, running only a front brake in a hilly area.
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Old 05-20-03, 11:20 AM   #6
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Rev and Fubar,

Do you use a brake or stop by backpedaling?

If you stop by backpedaling it will come off, if you use a brake you can probably get away with it.
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Old 05-20-03, 11:40 AM   #7
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I have a front brake but I back pedal as well, often hard enough to get the wheel hopping and it has never come loose. I now run a set of wheels(clinchers) with a regular track hub because my old set is tubular and I wanted something a little easier to fix on the side of the road.
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Old 05-20-03, 11:54 AM   #8
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As long as you don't do skid stops with the back you will be fine.

Dave
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Old 05-21-03, 06:08 AM   #9
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I am going to try this with my trashed hub. The freewheel side is fine. I will use locktite on both the cog and lock ring.

This should be a fun experiment.

I will let you know what happens!!!
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Old 05-21-03, 12:56 PM   #10
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I didn't run brakes..Never had a problem with back pedalling.

The BB lockring I used was reverse threaded, so I don't see how it could have come off with me back pedalling.
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Old 05-22-03, 06:28 AM   #11
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Thanks for the replies! Fubar, that reverse-threaded "bb" lockring is actually a track lockring and the proper way of locking down a track/fixed gear cog. I have that on the side of my hub that has the left-hand threads for it. The setup I was describing uses a regular right-hand thread bb lockring which has only the torque applied in a lockring manner to keep it from unthreading while the reversed thread of the track lockring prevents unthreading. The track lockring setup is quite secure. Using a bb lockring is only as secure as the competence of its installation.

The question has become moot since I decided to have my LBS build me a new wheel on a Phil Woods fixed gear hub using a black Mavic MA3. My buddy left a voice mail late yesterday which I hope means it is ready. My old Trek *** fixed gear is gradually making the planned transmogrification into a black/charcoal grey Stealth Urban Assault VEhicle (SUAVE) with mostly black components. At some point I will decide the change is far enough along and have it powder coated either black or charcoal. With a 28 mm Avocet Cross II Kevlar on the back and airless Green Tyre on the front it travels the trashiest city streets with disdain.
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Old 05-22-03, 08:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by RainmanP
Phil Woods fixed gear hub
I'm Drooling.

BTW, I run the Avocet Cross 35mm's on my fixed. They eat up the roughest of roads and come back for more. Great tire.
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Old 05-22-03, 11:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by riderx
I'm Drooling.

BTW, I run the Avocet Cross 35mm's on my fixed. They eat up the roughest of roads and come back for more. Great tire.
Riderx,
If YOU are drooling I must be doing something right! Actually I figure, hey, I sold my second car and ditched all the related expenses and I commute 22 miles round trip EVERY day rain or shine, heat or cold so I decided to treat myself. I returned my LBS buddy's call a while ago, and as I had hoped the wheel is ready. I plan to stop by on the way home for the old switcharoo. So do you think a Phil Woods hub will make me faster? BTW, some of your posts and your site got me interested in fixed gear/singlespeed to begin with.
Thanks,
Raymond
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Old 05-22-03, 12:04 PM   #14
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Those phill wood hubs look NICE!!! If you dont' mind me asking how much did it cost you to get a set built up?
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Old 05-22-03, 07:36 PM   #15
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Since I just got it and rode it home today I can tell you that it was right at $240. I believe the hub was about $160-170, and the rest was rim, spokes, build. I forgot to mention that we also used black DT spokes to go with the black rim. The beautifully shiny hub makes a nice contrast. I definitely have to get a paint job soon. Now I feel like the funky old frame is an insult to the new wheel!
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Old 05-22-03, 07:39 PM   #16
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That's not a bad cost at all. Enjoy the new wheel!
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Old 05-23-03, 06:46 AM   #17
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I felt faster as soon as I started riding on it.
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Old 05-23-03, 06:50 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by RainmanP
So do you think a Phil Woods hub will make me faster?
Not sure, but they definitely make your bike cooler! I was going to build a Phil recently, but went with the Surly because I could swap the axle later. Keep thinking about replacing my old heavy road frame w/ a Karate Monkey and the rear wheel spacing is different. I'll get the Phil hub one day though!


Quote:
Originally posted by RainmanP
BTW, some of your posts and your site got me interested in fixed gear/singlespeed to begin with.
I guess all the preaching is working! Glad to see you've found the fun in one gear riding.
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Old 05-23-03, 08:07 AM   #19
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Sweet set-up.

I am way jealous!!!
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Old 05-23-03, 08:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by riderx
Not sure, but they definitely make your bike cooler! I was going to build a Phil recently, but went with the Surly because I could swap the axle later. Keep thinking about replacing my old heavy road frame w/ a Karate Monkey and the rear wheel spacing is different. I'll get the Phil hub one day though!


I guess all the preaching is working! Glad to see you've found the fun in one gear riding.
The hub is so pretty and shiny!

Besides the Trek fixed gear I also have an old Schwinn set up with a singlespeed freewheel in a little bigger gear. My poor road bikes are getting really jealous because all I ever commute on anymore are the fixie and singlespeed.
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Old 05-23-03, 10:01 AM   #21
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I thought you could replace the axle on the phil wood, so if you ever needed a smaller or larger axle you could. I could be wrong though
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Old 05-23-03, 11:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
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I thought you could replace the axle on the phil wood, so if you ever needed a smaller or larger axle you could. I could be wrong though
You may be able to replace it, but not with a longer axle, or you can't respace it properly. Can't remember which right now, but I did a bunch of research because I really wanted one. What I went with was a Surly 120mm fixed/fixed hub and respaced it to 126mm. But, in the future I might want to respace it to 135mm. Unfortunately, the Phil didn't allow those options.
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