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  1. #1
    uhh, bike...rider.....
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    building my first Wheel, 32 hole Deep V

    So, I now have two Deep V rims, white 700c, with 32 holes. I also have I.R.O. flip flop hubs from sheldon Brown. Also, a Truing stand and spoke wrench. Now I need to buy spokes and get to building. I was going to buy nashbar ones and i need to know what size.

    do these look like good spokes? http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...All%20Products


    also I have looked a spoke calculator and have no clue how to use it. any tips?

    thanks
    kirk

  2. #2
    crotchety young dude el twe's Avatar
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    I'd have your LBS calculate spoke length. And while you're there, buy the spokes. They should have any size you'll need, where Nashbar only offers those few. Double butted (in the link) is nice, but straight gauge (14) is cheaper and should be plenty strong for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacKid View Post
    I explained that he could never pay me enough cash for the amount of work I had put into that bike and the only way to compensate me for it was to ride the hell out of it.
    IRO Angus Casati Gold Line

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by el twe
    I'd have your LBS calculate spoke length. And while you're there, buy the spokes. They should have any size you'll need, where Nashbar only offers those few. Double butted (in the link) is nice, but straight gauge (14) is cheaper and should be plenty strong for you.
    Harris Cyclery claims: "Straight gauge spokes $.60 each. (Not recommended, this is a poor place to cut corners--butted spokes build a more reliable wheel.)"

    I don't know if I agree, but double butted spokes are definitely the way to go. Your LBS should not charge more than a $1 p/spoke. I use the spokes calculator on the DT Swiss site. It works pretty well. The web is FULL of spokes calculating help, but the best one I have ever encountered is the one on Bike-a-log, which is only availible to bike shops.

  4. #4
    Curmudgeon Wil Davis's Avatar
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    I used straight (non-swaged) spokes on one of my builds as they were the only ones conveniently available at the time; my LBS cut them for me, as nowadays it's not worth stocking dozens of different spoke lengths and have them collect dust and use up space, so they cut them to length as needed. They worked great, but I noticed that occasionally there would be a "pinging" from the rear-wheel, always when in bottom gear, and usually when cranking hard. The dishing was fine, and the derailleur was adjusted correctly and yet I couldn't get rid of this pinging from the RD touching the spokes; I rebuilt the wheel using exactly the same lacing pattern and tension, but with double-butted spokes, and the problem went away (FWIW).

    - Wil
    "" - Marcel Marceau

  5. #5
    jack of one or two trades Aeroplane's Avatar
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    My wheels are built with 14g spokes. They work fine. No pings.

    Go to the LBS, and have them figure out the length for you if you aren't sure. Get some DT's or Wheelsmith spokes, generics have no place in wheel-building.

    BRASS NIPPLES!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Irwin Goldstein
    Men should never ride bicycles. Riding should be banned and outlawed. It is
    the most irrational form of exercise I could ever bring to discussion.

  6. #6
    aspiring dirtbag commuter max-a-mill's Avatar
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    dt > wheelsmith

    from what i hear from my shop peeps.

    doublebutted is defintiely nice if you got the $.
    - the revolution will not be motorized -

  7. #7
    redonkulous Rikardi151's Avatar
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    Someone else should confirm this before you trust me alone, but I believe that combo uses 281mm spokes.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkWW
    I used to think I bought too many bike parts for the money I had. Now I think I don't have enough money for the bike parts I want.

  8. #8
    redonkulous Rikardi151's Avatar
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    Also, this is the best deal youre going to find for double butted spokes: 72 sapim double butted spokes for $38 after shipping
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkWW
    I used to think I bought too many bike parts for the money I had. Now I think I don't have enough money for the bike parts I want.

  9. #9
    wot?
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    Brass nipples yes, and 14mm would be better than the usual 12mm.
    a life well lived is the best revenge

  10. #10
    Senior Member mr_tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kircules
    do these look like good spokes?

    also I have looked a spoke calculator and have no clue how to use it. any tips?
    If it's not DT Swiss or Sapim, I don't give a rat's ass. Seriously - double-butted quality spokes are dead cheap and worth the expenditure in reducing the amount of re-truing grief you'll have.

    Buy more spokes than you need. You'll need at least one extra, to get the nipples through the deep-section of the rim without dropping them.

    Spoke calculator: sit down with a tape-measure. Measure everything twice. Then put the numbers into the calculator. Bosh.

    Also: take it easy. For the first couple of times, it's a slow, iterative process. Once you're laced-up, the truing can take a while. Don't let it get you down if it feels like you're not getting anywhere. Just put everything down and come back to it the next day. It's easier to do 3x 20min truing sessions than sit there for an hour, fuming.

  11. #11
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    I'm going to go ahead and say Wheelsmith>DT Swiss. The elbows are shorter on WS, and the luster is less shiny and gawdy. WS has just the right shine.

    Use Brass nipples.

    Haha, I just found that the DT Swiss Spokes Calc doesn't even have any Velocity Rims in their data base. Lame.

  12. #12
    wot?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom
    Buy more spokes than you need. You'll need at least one extra, to get the nipples through the deep-section of the rim without dropping them.
    getting the nipples through the rim can be done more easily with a kebab skewer, but yes, buy a couple extra, you shouldn't ever break one if all is built properly but better safe than sorry, to coin a phrase
    a life well lived is the best revenge

  13. #13
    10x
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wil Davis
    I noticed that occasionally there would be a "pinging" from the rear-wheel, always when in bottom gear, and usually when cranking hard. The dishing was fine, and the derailleur was adjusted correctly and yet I couldn't get rid of this pinging from the RD touching the spokes; I rebuilt the wheel using exactly the same lacing pattern and tension, but with double-butted spokes, and the problem went away (FWIW).

    - Wil
    that pinging is the sound of the spokes de-torquing.
    after the wheel has been laced and trued first you have to bend the spokes around each other with a lever (old crank or butter knife works), re-tru, then put the wheel horizontally on the ground and with yr hands on opposite sides of the rim press down, rotate, press down, flip wheel over, repeat and re-tru.

    there is no complete data base of hub and rim dimensions, but i have found that damon rinard.com is a fairly comprehensive and accurate source.

    wheel building is rad!
    good luck!

  14. #14
    如果你能讀了這個你講中文 genericbikedude's Avatar
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    +1 on "don't buy straight gauge spokes." if you are that broke, you shouldn't be building your own wheel, but rather buying a machine-built (it is often cheaper)

  15. #15
    Phagocyte d3fold's Avatar
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    Here's an article on one reason you might want to use Wheelsmith.

    http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm

  16. #16
    Curmudgeon Wil Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x
    that pinging is the sound of the spokes de-torquing.
    after the wheel has been laced and trued first you have to bend the spokes around each other with a lever (old crank or butter knife works), re-tru, then put the wheel horizontally on the ground and with yr hands on opposite sides of the rim press down, rotate, press down, flip wheel over, repeat and re-tru.

    there is no complete data base of hub and rim dimensions, but i have found that damon rinard.com is a fairly comprehensive and accurate source.

    wheel building is rad!
    good luck!
    I agree with you that often the pinging is exactly what you describe, and I concur with your solution (I find a nipple-driver to be the ideal tool), however in my case the pinging was the spokes hitting the derailleur cage, proven by tweaking the adjustment on the RD. Yes, the Damon Rinard information is very good; I have an Excel spreadsheet file which came from that site, it has lots of rim and hub data, and a great spoke-length calculator; a very useful source indeed!

    - Wil
    Last edited by Wil Davis; 03-23-07 at 04:24 PM.
    "" - Marcel Marceau

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x
    then put the wheel horizontally on the ground and with yr hands on opposite sides of the rim press down, rotate, press down, flip wheel over, repeat and re-tru.
    I think jobst brandt actually says this is bad for the wheel. if the point is stress-relieving, you can easily do that by just squeezing pairs of spokes together in the same plane as the wheel. wheels dont hold up to lateral stress nearly as well as they do to radial

  18. #18
    wot?
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    Yup, squeeze pairs of spokes together to stress relieve. When you're putting the last bit of tension on the spoke, overshoot by about an eighth of a turn and back off by the same amount; this will mostly remove any windup in the spoke. If you do this properly you should have little to no pinging on the first ride. Don't forget to press the spoke ends against the hub flange once you've laced up the wheel; this will help the tension to stay constant and seat the spokes better.
    a life well lived is the best revenge

  19. #19
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    Man, I want to build another wheel set now.

    Has anyone ever used phil wood spokes?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom
    Also: take it easy. For the first couple of times, it's a slow, iterative process. Once you're laced-up, the truing can take a while. Don't let it get you down if it feels like you're not getting anywhere. Just put everything down and come back to it the next day. It's easier to do 3x 20min truing sessions than sit there for an hour, fuming.
    I've built several sets of wheels, and this has got to be one of the best pieces of advice I've ever read on BF.

  21. #21
    crotchety young dude el twe's Avatar
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    Straight 14 gauge builds a solid wheel, but double butted will hold up a little better for a big rider (they flex more). If you're looking to save some cash, go straight (lolz). Plus they look better...
    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacKid View Post
    I explained that he could never pay me enough cash for the amount of work I had put into that bike and the only way to compensate me for it was to ride the hell out of it.
    IRO Angus Casati Gold Line

  22. #22
    moar wine!!! rodri9o's Avatar
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    my opinion, for what it's worth:
    Front: Radial 15/16g w/ brass nipples
    Rear: 2X 14/15g w/ brass nipples
    If it were my wheelset, thats what I would build. The DeepV's are very very strong rims. Also, I like to use a little grease on the spokes, and then as I tighten up the wheel, a drop of tri-flow at the contact point of the rim/nipple.

    good luck

  23. #23
    如果你能讀了這個你講中文 genericbikedude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by el twe
    Straight 14 gauge builds a solid wheel, but double butted will hold up a little better for a big rider (they flex more). If you're looking to save some cash, go straight (lolz). Plus they look better...
    well-built wheels with double butted spokes do not flex more. this is wrong.

  24. #24
    yo yo yo yo yo
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    Quote Originally Posted by genericbikedude
    well-built wheels with double butted spokes do not flex more. this is wrong.
    you sure about that?

  25. #25
    crotchety young dude el twe's Avatar
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    I meant that they have more room to flex, thus can handle heavier riders and ****ty roads better. The wheel doesn't flex, just the spoke.
    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacKid View Post
    I explained that he could never pay me enough cash for the amount of work I had put into that bike and the only way to compensate me for it was to ride the hell out of it.
    IRO Angus Casati Gold Line

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