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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 03-22-07, 05:14 PM   #1
Kircules
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building my first Wheel, 32 hole Deep V

So, I now have two Deep V rims, white 700c, with 32 holes. I also have I.R.O. flip flop hubs from sheldon Brown. Also, a Truing stand and spoke wrench. Now I need to buy spokes and get to building. I was going to buy nashbar ones and i need to know what size.

do these look like good spokes? http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...All%20Products


also I have looked a spoke calculator and have no clue how to use it. any tips?

thanks
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Old 03-22-07, 05:19 PM   #2
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I'd have your LBS calculate spoke length. And while you're there, buy the spokes. They should have any size you'll need, where Nashbar only offers those few. Double butted (in the link) is nice, but straight gauge (14) is cheaper and should be plenty strong for you.
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Old 03-23-07, 01:59 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el twe
I'd have your LBS calculate spoke length. And while you're there, buy the spokes. They should have any size you'll need, where Nashbar only offers those few. Double butted (in the link) is nice, but straight gauge (14) is cheaper and should be plenty strong for you.
Harris Cyclery claims: "Straight gauge spokes $.60 each. (Not recommended, this is a poor place to cut corners--butted spokes build a more reliable wheel.)"

I don't know if I agree, but double butted spokes are definitely the way to go. Your LBS should not charge more than a $1 p/spoke. I use the spokes calculator on the DT Swiss site. It works pretty well. The web is FULL of spokes calculating help, but the best one I have ever encountered is the one on Bike-a-log, which is only availible to bike shops.
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Old 03-23-07, 02:28 AM   #4
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I used straight (non-swaged) spokes on one of my builds as they were the only ones conveniently available at the time; my LBS cut them for me, as nowadays it's not worth stocking dozens of different spoke lengths and have them collect dust and use up space, so they cut them to length as needed. They worked great, but I noticed that occasionally there would be a "pinging" from the rear-wheel, always when in bottom gear, and usually when cranking hard. The dishing was fine, and the derailleur was adjusted correctly and yet I couldn't get rid of this pinging from the RD touching the spokes; I rebuilt the wheel using exactly the same lacing pattern and tension, but with double-butted spokes, and the problem went away (FWIW).

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Old 03-23-07, 06:35 AM   #5
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My wheels are built with 14g spokes. They work fine. No pings.

Go to the LBS, and have them figure out the length for you if you aren't sure. Get some DT's or Wheelsmith spokes, generics have no place in wheel-building.

BRASS NIPPLES!!!!
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Old 03-23-07, 06:46 AM   #6
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dt > wheelsmith

from what i hear from my shop peeps.

doublebutted is defintiely nice if you got the $.
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Old 03-23-07, 07:56 AM   #7
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Someone else should confirm this before you trust me alone, but I believe that combo uses 281mm spokes.
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Old 03-23-07, 08:00 AM   #8
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Also, this is the best deal youre going to find for double butted spokes: 72 sapim double butted spokes for $38 after shipping
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Old 03-23-07, 08:06 AM   #9
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Brass nipples yes, and 14mm would be better than the usual 12mm.
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Old 03-23-07, 09:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kircules
do these look like good spokes?

also I have looked a spoke calculator and have no clue how to use it. any tips?
If it's not DT Swiss or Sapim, I don't give a rat's ass. Seriously - double-butted quality spokes are dead cheap and worth the expenditure in reducing the amount of re-truing grief you'll have.

Buy more spokes than you need. You'll need at least one extra, to get the nipples through the deep-section of the rim without dropping them.

Spoke calculator: sit down with a tape-measure. Measure everything twice. Then put the numbers into the calculator. Bosh.

Also: take it easy. For the first couple of times, it's a slow, iterative process. Once you're laced-up, the truing can take a while. Don't let it get you down if it feels like you're not getting anywhere. Just put everything down and come back to it the next day. It's easier to do 3x 20min truing sessions than sit there for an hour, fuming.
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Old 03-23-07, 09:32 AM   #11
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I'm going to go ahead and say Wheelsmith>DT Swiss. The elbows are shorter on WS, and the luster is less shiny and gawdy. WS has just the right shine.

Use Brass nipples.

Haha, I just found that the DT Swiss Spokes Calc doesn't even have any Velocity Rims in their data base. Lame.
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Old 03-23-07, 11:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_tom
Buy more spokes than you need. You'll need at least one extra, to get the nipples through the deep-section of the rim without dropping them.
getting the nipples through the rim can be done more easily with a kebab skewer, but yes, buy a couple extra, you shouldn't ever break one if all is built properly but better safe than sorry, to coin a phrase
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Old 03-23-07, 12:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil Davis
I noticed that occasionally there would be a "pinging" from the rear-wheel, always when in bottom gear, and usually when cranking hard. The dishing was fine, and the derailleur was adjusted correctly and yet I couldn't get rid of this pinging from the RD touching the spokes; I rebuilt the wheel using exactly the same lacing pattern and tension, but with double-butted spokes, and the problem went away (FWIW).

- Wil
that pinging is the sound of the spokes de-torquing.
after the wheel has been laced and trued first you have to bend the spokes around each other with a lever (old crank or butter knife works), re-tru, then put the wheel horizontally on the ground and with yr hands on opposite sides of the rim press down, rotate, press down, flip wheel over, repeat and re-tru.

there is no complete data base of hub and rim dimensions, but i have found that damon rinard.com is a fairly comprehensive and accurate source.

wheel building is rad!
good luck!
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Old 03-23-07, 01:34 PM   #14
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+1 on "don't buy straight gauge spokes." if you are that broke, you shouldn't be building your own wheel, but rather buying a machine-built (it is often cheaper)
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Old 03-23-07, 02:14 PM   #15
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Here's an article on one reason you might want to use Wheelsmith.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm
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Old 03-23-07, 03:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10x
that pinging is the sound of the spokes de-torquing.
after the wheel has been laced and trued first you have to bend the spokes around each other with a lever (old crank or butter knife works), re-tru, then put the wheel horizontally on the ground and with yr hands on opposite sides of the rim press down, rotate, press down, flip wheel over, repeat and re-tru.

there is no complete data base of hub and rim dimensions, but i have found that damon rinard.com is a fairly comprehensive and accurate source.

wheel building is rad!
good luck!
I agree with you that often the pinging is exactly what you describe, and I concur with your solution (I find a nipple-driver to be the ideal tool), however in my case the pinging was the spokes hitting the derailleur cage, proven by tweaking the adjustment on the RD. Yes, the Damon Rinard information is very good; I have an Excel spreadsheet file which came from that site, it has lots of rim and hub data, and a great spoke-length calculator; a very useful source indeed!

- Wil

Last edited by Wil Davis; 03-23-07 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 03-23-07, 06:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10x
then put the wheel horizontally on the ground and with yr hands on opposite sides of the rim press down, rotate, press down, flip wheel over, repeat and re-tru.
I think jobst brandt actually says this is bad for the wheel. if the point is stress-relieving, you can easily do that by just squeezing pairs of spokes together in the same plane as the wheel. wheels dont hold up to lateral stress nearly as well as they do to radial
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Old 03-23-07, 07:42 PM   #18
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Yup, squeeze pairs of spokes together to stress relieve. When you're putting the last bit of tension on the spoke, overshoot by about an eighth of a turn and back off by the same amount; this will mostly remove any windup in the spoke. If you do this properly you should have little to no pinging on the first ride. Don't forget to press the spoke ends against the hub flange once you've laced up the wheel; this will help the tension to stay constant and seat the spokes better.
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Old 03-23-07, 07:50 PM   #19
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Man, I want to build another wheel set now.

Has anyone ever used phil wood spokes?
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Old 03-23-07, 08:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_tom
Also: take it easy. For the first couple of times, it's a slow, iterative process. Once you're laced-up, the truing can take a while. Don't let it get you down if it feels like you're not getting anywhere. Just put everything down and come back to it the next day. It's easier to do 3x 20min truing sessions than sit there for an hour, fuming.
I've built several sets of wheels, and this has got to be one of the best pieces of advice I've ever read on BF.
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Old 03-23-07, 10:30 PM   #21
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Straight 14 gauge builds a solid wheel, but double butted will hold up a little better for a big rider (they flex more). If you're looking to save some cash, go straight (lolz). Plus they look better...
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Old 03-23-07, 10:54 PM   #22
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my opinion, for what it's worth:
Front: Radial 15/16g w/ brass nipples
Rear: 2X 14/15g w/ brass nipples
If it were my wheelset, thats what I would build. The DeepV's are very very strong rims. Also, I like to use a little grease on the spokes, and then as I tighten up the wheel, a drop of tri-flow at the contact point of the rim/nipple.

good luck
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Old 03-24-07, 12:06 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el twe
Straight 14 gauge builds a solid wheel, but double butted will hold up a little better for a big rider (they flex more). If you're looking to save some cash, go straight (lolz). Plus they look better...
well-built wheels with double butted spokes do not flex more. this is wrong.
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Old 03-24-07, 01:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genericbikedude
well-built wheels with double butted spokes do not flex more. this is wrong.
you sure about that?
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Old 03-24-07, 12:07 PM   #25
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I meant that they have more room to flex, thus can handle heavier riders and ****ty roads better. The wheel doesn't flex, just the spoke.
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