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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 04-15-07, 02:44 PM   #1
roughrider504
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Cheap cog vs my hub

Are cheap cogs really bad for my hub? I just ordered a fixed/fixed formula and I have to order a lockring and cog now. Bikepartsusa has a Cyclo cog for 10$, and a nicer cog for 20$. Ive been using the Cyclo on a suicide hub for a while with no problems. As long as the lockring stays real tight I should be fine right? Or should I just suck it up and get the expensive cog? Thanks in advance for any help.
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Old 04-15-07, 03:04 PM   #2
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Just spend the money now and get a quality cog (Surly, EAI, Dura Ace, or SOMA). Either spend a little bit more now or take the chance of stripping out your brand new hub and then really having to pay for it.
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Old 04-15-07, 03:08 PM   #3
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I used to think it did not make any difference. But I used a cheap, stamped cog and it stripped my hub immediately. I am all for skimping on money, but this is probably not a good way to save $10.
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Old 04-15-07, 03:51 PM   #4
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DA cogs are under $20. There is no reason not to get one.
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Old 04-15-07, 03:54 PM   #5
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Thanks for the replies. I just read on Sheldon Brown that the 20$ Rockwerks cog is bad too. They have dura ace cogs, but not over 16t. I wanted to run 52x18, but I'll settle for 40x14. The Dura-ace 14t will work with the dura-ace lockring right?
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Old 04-15-07, 04:02 PM   #6
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the verdict is your hub looses and so do you in turn spend the extra money and get a decent cog eai cogs are 25buck and they are super thick and smooth and really nice I like em just as much as my superbe pro cogs soma iro da and all the others I have tried just couldn't cut the mustard
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Old 04-15-07, 04:29 PM   #7
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what everyone else is saying seconded - your drivetrain isn't the place to skimp to save a few bucks.
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Old 04-15-07, 04:32 PM   #8
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Mitch at Shaker Cycle is convinced that it's all about proper installation, not the quality of the cog. That makes a lot of sense to me, but there are others who're convinced they stripped their hubs because of cheap cogs. Best bet: good cog, proper installation.
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Old 04-15-07, 06:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blickblocks
Mitch at Shaker Cycle is convinced that it's all about proper installation, not the quality of the cog. That makes a lot of sense to me, but there are others who're convinced they stripped their hubs because of cheap cogs. Best bet: good cog, proper installation.
Huh? Other than cross-threading, what can go wrong in the installation? In my case, and from what I have heard from several others here, the hub stripped out almost immediately, so it was not a case of the cog and lock-ring not being tightened down.

But I am open to be shown wrong.

How does one install one correctly to avoid this problem?

jim
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Old 04-15-07, 06:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by jgedwa
In my case, and from what I have heard from several others here, the hub stripped out almost immediately, so it was not a case of the cog and lock-ring not being tightened down.
Wonder how that could have happened...wrong threading?

My cheap cog didn't strip my hub, does that mean it won't?
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Old 04-15-07, 07:58 PM   #11
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I have never understood this notion that a cheap cog will strip your hub. If you tighten that ****er down and do the same with the lock ring, it has no room to move. How could it strip the threads if it is pinned in place between the hub and lockring?

That said, a nicer cog is only a few bucks more...
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Old 04-15-07, 08:04 PM   #12
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cheap cogs usually have a thinner threaded portion meaning they don't have as much material to engage the hub threads securely, increasing the chance of stripping the hub..
the whole reason the threads get stripped is precisely because the cog is seated against the hub shoulder and has nowhere to go. it spins in place and the soft aluminum threads are the first to give way...

investing in a good quality cog like EAI means you get one that lasts a long time, won't destroy your hub, has good resale value if you ever want to change gearing.. and made in usa too...
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Old 04-15-07, 10:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coelcanth
cheap cogs usually have a thinner threaded portion meaning they don't have as much material to engage the hub threads securely, increasing the chance of stripping the hub..
the whole reason the threads get stripped is precisely because the cog is seated against the hub shoulder and has nowhere to go. it spins in place and the soft aluminum threads are the first to give way...


If my cog strips my hub I'll switch over to bolt-on...nothing to strip.
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Old 04-16-07, 12:11 AM   #14
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What do you folks think about those quick change systems? I went to my LBS to change my gearing from52X21 to 52X18. The owner talked me into a dealie where you have an adaptor that threads onto your hub and the cog just sits in it and the whole shebang is tightened down with the lock ring. Apperently, this makes for quick gearing changes as you don't unthread the cog, you just undo the lock ring, pull out the cog, place your alternate cog in the adaptor, re-intall the lock ring and away you go! I believe it is a miche(sp?) set-up?
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Old 04-16-07, 03:17 AM   #15
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^egh, by the time you get out the lock ring tool and change your chain length (probably), you might as well have gone one more step and spun the cog off with a chain whip.

the whole process will never be fast.
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Old 04-16-07, 03:40 AM   #16
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I thank God that my friend's new bike shop had a stack of 6 NOS Superbe Pro cogs in various sizes that I can get for next to nothing. Now I need a hub.
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Old 04-16-07, 04:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyteeth
I have never understood this notion that a cheap cog will strip your hub. If you tighten that ****er down and do the same with the lock ring, it has no room to move. How could it strip the threads if it is pinned in place between the hub and lockring?

That said, a nicer cog is only a few bucks more...
When a component is machined you pay for accuracy and matieraial quality. I cna't remember the threading but I would take a guess that track hubs are 24 tpi. Now that expensive cog should be machined to a much higher accuracy to be close as possible to the 24 tpi than the cheap cog. An exapmle of machineing accuracy can be found if you buy some chem nut and bolts and some expensive nut and bolts and compear the "rock" of the nut on the bolts etween the two.
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Old 04-16-07, 04:51 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Retem
the verdict is your hub looses
looses arrows?
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Old 04-16-07, 05:40 AM   #19
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I got a wheel set from a guy who rides on the track, so he says he doesn't use a lock ring. So get the wheels (WITH a lock ring) and im riding around for the first time fixed... then i stop pedaling and the cog just screws off until it hits the lock ring.

I'm thinking either new thick surly cog or more spacers... i dono if my cog is a cheap one though.

OH and i tried the rotafix(sp) method and it came loose again...

But no striping yet...

As for the cheap cog vs less cheap, go with the less cheap, no reason not to.
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Old 04-16-07, 07:12 AM   #20
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I doubt that I'd ever try this, but it just sprung to mind whilst reading this; if for some reason you didn't have a chain whip, would it be a really stupid idea to unscrew a cog on a fixie by taking the lockring off and using back pressure on the pedals?
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Old 04-16-07, 07:36 AM   #21
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personally, i'm always going to recommend that somebody get a DA, surly, EAI, or phil wood cog. saving ten bucks isn't worth the risk of having to replace your hub.

but i have a theory that cheap cogs strip hubs because the people buying cheap cogs are new riders with little wrench experience. they opt to save a couple of bucks here and there - cog, doing the install themselves cause they read on the internet about how you can make a fixiee - and they wind up doing it improperly, and the hub gets stripped shortly after they post to a bike forum asking for skidding tips.

proper cog and lockring installation are important to being safe.

but i'd still stay away from cheap-ass cogs.
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Old 04-16-07, 07:45 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by dudezor
I doubt that I'd ever try this, but it just sprung to mind whilst reading this; if for some reason you didn't have a chain whip, would it be a really stupid idea to unscrew a cog on a fixie by taking the lockring off and using back pressure on the pedals?
Dunno, but would you risk a $150 da hub like that? If it was a cheapo, no matter.
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Old 04-16-07, 07:46 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by dudezor
I doubt that I'd ever try this, but it just sprung to mind whilst reading this; if for some reason you didn't have a chain whip, would it be a really stupid idea to unscrew a cog on a fixie by taking the lockring off and using back pressure on the pedals?

if properly tightented this won't work. look up reverse rotafix.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurgus
What do you folks think about those quick change systems? I went to my LBS to change my gearing from52X21 to 52X18. The owner talked me into a dealie where you have an adaptor that threads onto your hub and the cog just sits in it and the whole shebang is tightened down with the lock ring. Apperently, this makes for quick gearing changes as you don't unthread the cog, you just undo the lock ring, pull out the cog, place your alternate cog in the adaptor, re-intall the lock ring and away you go! I believe it is a miche(sp?) set-up?
I use one on the track. It's really nice for that since I have to switch out cogs multiple times a night. Supposedly the splines are prone to stripping with street use though and if you are only switching gears every couple of weeks or something it doesn't really seem worth it to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadgator
^egh, by the time you get out the lock ring tool and change your chain length (probably), you might as well have gone one more step and spun the cog off with a chain whip.

the whole process will never be fast.
It is a lot faster. Getting a cog off with a chain is a *****. Getting a lock ring off is still pretty easy. With the miche system the whole process only takes a minute or two without it's substantially slower.
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Old 04-16-07, 07:46 AM   #24
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Dunno, but would you risk a $150 da hub like that? If it was a cheapo, no matter.
Where is the risk?
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Old 04-16-07, 07:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diff_lock2
As for the cheap cog vs less cheap, go with the less cheap, no reason not to.
Saving money is usually a reason for buying the cheaper one. But you're right, there really isn't a good reason not to.
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