Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-22-07, 11:33 PM   #1
slackar.
Narb.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Bikes: Bianchi Volpe (stock), IRO Angus (built up).
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Smoothness of ride - frame material, rims, or both?

I've read things here and there that suggest that frame material determines how smooth a ride is, in terms of the bike eating up bumps and whatnot.

I've recently built up a new bike, and have noticed that it eats up bumps nicely! Going over them is real smooth compared to my first bike. I'm wondering, though, why this is. The frame material obviously comes to mind, but I've also come to wonder if the rims are also a significant factor on this.

Also note that my first bike is multi-geared whereas the new ride is a single fixed.

Setup 1: Bianchi Volpe (cromoly), ACE-19 Alexrims.

Setup 2: Iro Angus (reynolds 631), Mavic CXP-22.

What do you guys think?

Is the leap from cromoly to reynolds really that great of a change? I've heard aluminum is horrible when it comes to bumps, but always thought cromoly was considered pretty decent stuff.

Is it the frame, the rims, both, or could it be something else?
slackar. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-07, 11:42 PM   #2
Retem
Paste Taster
 
Retem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: , Jury Bike, Moto Outcast 29, Spicer standard track frame and spicer custom steel sprint frame.
Posts: 4,392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
mostly the ride depends on frame construction and not much else tires also effect ride but that is the primary factor construction
Retem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-07, 11:51 PM   #3
number18
crown heights sucka
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: brooklyn!
Bikes: pake
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
geometry, too, is totally key.
number18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 12:35 AM   #4
subfinitum
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Tire pressure?
subfinitum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 12:36 AM   #5
deimos
thanks for not picking me
 
deimos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes:
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
hubs?
deimos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 12:48 AM   #6
Bikkhu
sVe
 
Bikkhu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hellsinki, Funland
Bikes: Nishiki Continental fixed winter beater, Fixed Surly CrossCheck
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Frame, tires.
Bikkhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 12:56 AM   #7
nathbdp
Senior Member
 
nathbdp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
of course its going to be smooth if you only go 5 mph granddad.
nathbdp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 01:09 AM   #8
slackar.
Narb.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Bikes: Bianchi Volpe (stock), IRO Angus (built up).
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathbdp
of course its going to be smooth if you only go 5 mph granddad.
I clocked in at 11mph this afternoon.

Shows what you know.
slackar. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 02:05 AM   #9
buro9
fuelled by vodka
 
buro9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Bikes: Serotta Nove, Bob Jackson Pista, Cannondale CAA8
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's any place with a moving part (hubs, bottom bracket, headset), anywhere that bears load (tyres, tyre pressure, rims, spokes, hubs, frame) and the surface you're riding on.

So as a simple answer, both.

Most people will find the biggest difference will be in changing wheelset. Velocity Deep V's may look colourful and pretty, they may also be virtually bombproof, but they ride like **** (compared to Mavic CXP 33's for example - and yes I own some Deep V's but I do so because of potholes and look, not look alone).

I notice an enormous difference on my road bike between my Campag Neutron wheelset and my Fulcrum Racing 1's. The Fulcrums are a lot smoother and purr along, but I'll choose the Neutrons if I know I have serious hills to climb.

Oh, and tubs run better than clinchers. As with all things though, it's up to you to decide whether you feel the pros and cons of clinchers outweigh the pros and cons of tubulars *for you*.
buro9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 02:19 AM   #10
mander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Van BC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am just repeating the impression I got from reading Grant Peterson, but isn't getting fatter tires and running them at lower psi the most effective way of smoothing out your ride?
mander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 02:31 AM   #11
number18
crown heights sucka
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: brooklyn!
Bikes: pake
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
so, to summarize: everything that can be changed about a bike will affect the smoothness of the ride in some way. everything.
number18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 02:43 AM   #12
oldsprinter
oldsprinter
 
oldsprinter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tokyo
Bikes:
Posts: 935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oft overlooked is the seatpost - swapping to carbon with set back soaks up harshness.

Carbon forks make a massive difference compared to aluminium ones. Carbon rims too.

Obviously, radial spokes are harsher than 3x.

number18 your statement "so, to summarize: everything that can be changed about a bike will affect the smoothness of the ride in some way. everything." is a bit OTT. - Bottle cage? Front and rear mech? Skewers? Bottom bracket? Cassette? Chain? Headset?

The key things are frame, tyres, rims.
oldsprinter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 02:46 AM   #13
Retem
Paste Taster
 
Retem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: , Jury Bike, Moto Outcast 29, Spicer standard track frame and spicer custom steel sprint frame.
Posts: 4,392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by andre nickatina
Retem, you've never ridden a few different wheel build setups and noticed differences in the rides with each of them? I have.
no not when they are laced tight and true and the tires are at 130psi the most difference is in the construction lugged tig fillet as well as geometry for sure mostly a construction thing
Retem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 02:48 AM   #14
number18
crown heights sucka
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: brooklyn!
Bikes: pake
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsprinter
Bottle cage? Front and rear mech? Skewers? Bottom bracket? Cassette? Chain? Headset?
over the top, OK, (i was being sarcastic), but:

Frame material
Frame geometry
Frame construction
Wheel size
Tire width
Tire tread
Tire inflation
Seatpost material
Rim material
Number of spokes
Manufacture of spokes
Arrangement of spokes
Quality of wheelbuild
Saddle material
Saddle rail material

That's a lot of factors! Am I forgetting anything?

Last edited by number18; 04-23-07 at 02:58 AM.
number18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 02:55 AM   #15
Retem
Paste Taster
 
Retem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: , Jury Bike, Moto Outcast 29, Spicer standard track frame and spicer custom steel sprint frame.
Posts: 4,392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackar.
Is the leap from cromoly to reynolds really that great of a change? I've heard aluminum is horrible when it comes to bumps, but always thought cromoly was considered pretty decent stuff.

Is it the frame, the rims, both, or could it be something else?
reynolds is chromoly and my aluminum eai brass knuckle actually rides smoother than my khs flite 100 which is reynolds 520 butted chromo tubing.
as far as wheels
on my beater I have a set of formulas laced to weinmanns 36h a little wobbly my winter bike so...
on my khs phils laced to cxp 22 36h tight and true pretty stiff the frame is very harsh especially the forks being round legged they yeild a jolting ride
on my brass knuckle mavic ellipse tight and true very stiff wheels being an aluminum frame with compact geo and steep angles you would expect thtis to be a harsh ride but really it is like butta and stiffer than the khs the forks are bladed and have a little more rake takes some of the knocks out

hopefully this clarifies all have tires that are 120psi and up I weigh 220# and ride my bikes hard so I like to keep my wheels as tight as possible
Retem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 02:57 AM   #16
Retem
Paste Taster
 
Retem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: , Jury Bike, Moto Outcast 29, Spicer standard track frame and spicer custom steel sprint frame.
Posts: 4,392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsprinter
Oft overlooked is the seatpost - swapping to carbon with set back soaks up harshness.
also saddle rails help too cromo or ti saddle rails are the nicest
Retem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 04:31 AM   #17
roadgator
raodmaster shaman
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: G-ville
Bikes:
Posts: 1,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
frame material
geometry
wheels
tire pressure

they all effect the ride. mess around with different combinations and you'll start to understand how.

big soft tires and spongy rims can make the stiffest frame feel plush. and high pressure tires on stiff rims can make a noodle of a frame feel harsh.

the frame is going to be the main factor on bigger bumps (it has the most capacity to absorb energy), while tires will have a bigger influence on how much of the little stuff (cracks and pebbles) you feel. this all varies and overlaps though. the frame is the biggest component of the ride while the wheels and tires are kinda a way to "tune" it to your liking.
roadgator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 04:50 AM   #18
buro9
fuelled by vodka
 
buro9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Bikes: Serotta Nove, Bob Jackson Pista, Cannondale CAA8
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Several people have mentioned larger tyres with lower pressure. But for me a smooth ride is one where the effort is low and the speed is great... that of the most efficiency.

Reducing rolling resistance is what defines a tyres influence on a smooth ride.

Isn't that why the majority of us ride thin, treadless, high-pressure tyres? Speed and smoothness?

I'm not going to let air out of my tyres to gain a 'smooth' ride, when in reality it's just cheap suspension and the penalty for doing so will be higher rolling resistance which means more effort to roll along, and may also mean the ride is 'bouncy'.
buro9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 05:12 AM   #19
Bikkhu
sVe
 
Bikkhu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hellsinki, Funland
Bikes: Nishiki Continental fixed winter beater, Fixed Surly CrossCheck
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by buro9
Several people have mentioned larger tyres with lower pressure. But for me a smooth ride is one where the effort is low and the speed is great... that of the most efficiency.

Reducing rolling resistance is what defines a tyres influence on a smooth ride.

Isn't that why the majority of us ride thin, treadless, high-pressure tyres? Speed and smoothness?

I'm not going to let air out of my tyres to gain a 'smooth' ride, when in reality it's just cheap suspension and the penalty for doing so will be higher rolling resistance which means more effort to roll along, and may also mean the ride is 'bouncy'.
It really depends on the air volume of the tire. I gave up riding high-pressure 23īs few years ago. Just stupid to do that on average city pavement and I like to keep fillings in my teeth. Nowdays I am a big fan of tires with more air volume and am an advocate of "balloon bike" concept. Currently I ride Schwalbe Kojak 35/700 slicks. But then again, donīt ride so fast anymore, either. But I do think that bigger tires with slightly less air pressure equals more comfort, with almost no noticeable increase in rolling resistance and also help to keep those bearings and rims sweet.
Bikkhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 06:22 AM   #20
bonechilling
Run What 'Ya Brung
 
bonechilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 5,694
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The question is so completely unquantifiable that to even ask it is
totally absurd. There are so many factors, all of which are basically
negated by the rider and his preference or mood or how much he's
had to drink.

Last edited by bonechilling; 04-23-07 at 06:31 AM.
bonechilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 06:26 AM   #21
Grasschopper
He drop me
 
Grasschopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central PA
Bikes: '03 Marin Mill Valley, '06 Cannondale Rush, '02 Eddy Merckx Corsa 0.1, '07 Bottecchia Euro Sprint Tour Comp Elite Pro 1000
Posts: 11,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rim profile will play a big roll as will tire size and level of inflation. Deep V rims are MUCH stiffer radially than say an Open Pro...I can feel the difference between the Fusions (25mm) and the Open Pro as well. Most rims these days are AL unless you are rocking CF which are mostly very deep profile and will also be very radially stiff.

Spoke tension does not play a significant roll.

Frame design would be above frame material for ride quality impact.
__________________
The views expressed by this poster do not reflect the views of BikeForums.net.
Grasschopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 06:58 AM   #22
buro9
fuelled by vodka
 
buro9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Bikes: Serotta Nove, Bob Jackson Pista, Cannondale CAA8
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonechilling
The question is so completely unquantifiable that to even ask it is
totally absurd. There are so many factors, all of which are basically
negated by the rider and his preference or mood or how much he's
had to drink
.
Heh, certainly that would make the biggest difference.

So... what booze makes for the smoothest ride? Surely spirits over beers, less of a liquid belly.
buro9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 08:39 AM   #23
yairi
é wot?
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Inner Canuckistan
Bikes: Gary Fisher Montare, 1973 Bottechia, IRO Jamie Roy,1998 Cervelo Eyre Tri, 1982 Peugeot Sport fixed gear, and some kind of red bike hanging in the rafters
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mander
I am just repeating the impression I got from reading Grant Peterson, but isn't getting fatter tires and running them at lower psi the most effective way of smoothing out your ride?
Yes ... I have a Jamie Roy, which is fairly thick-walled big-tubed aluminum, and heavy-duty stiff wheels, so it ought to be harsh according to all the conventional wisdom; but, with 700x32c* tires with 120tpi casings, it's a really nice ride. And still fast, too.

The quality of the tire makes a big difference. Cheap tires are stiff. More flexible tires are harder to make and therefore more expensive; but they are both faster and more comfortable.

*that's nominal, they're actually 28mm wide. Vittoria Cross XN Pro.
yairi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 10:29 AM   #24
Natron
Dude.
 
Natron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check, Specialized Langster Pro
Posts: 400
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Frame substance is the only thing that matters. Components couldn't matter less. Steel gives a stiff but forgiving ride and makes all of the components you attach to it much better than they were before you pulled them out of the box, free of charge. It's because steel frame tubes compress along their length which gives a more comfortable ride. This phenomenon happens nowhere else in nature and with no other steel tubing used for any other application! It's literally magic! There's no scientific fact to back this up but ask almost anyone here and they will nearly bet their lives on the 'steel is real' myt---- err..... fact.

SCIENCE!!
Natron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-07, 11:28 AM   #25
mander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Van BC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by buro9
I'm not going to let air out of my tyres to gain a 'smooth' ride, when in reality it's just cheap suspension and the penalty for doing so will be higher rolling resistance which means more effort to roll along, and may also mean the ride is 'bouncy'.
I was under the impression that pneumatic tires actually offer very good suspension for their weight (something about a linear response), much better than say a solid rubber tire on a suspension fork, and that's why they are on all cars, motorcycles and bikes, aircraft landing gear etc.

Is flex in the bike less inefficient than flex in the tires? I don't believe this but maybe you have a good reason why.
mander is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:50 AM.