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  1. #1
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Brooks B17 climbing leverage

    I have love/hate with the B17 on my fixed gear.

    One thing I like about is when climbing I can use the back metal support to push my upper thighs/lower butt into for extra leverage. Other 'racing' style saddles I've tried, ones ass pushes over the back of the saddle in similar situation.

    I don't like how the B17 sits too far forward, how it sags in the middle as it wears.

    I tried a Fizik Alliante to replace my overworn B17, but it just doesn't have that ass bar to push against when climbing seated. Anyone else find this an advantage of the B17?

    Al

  2. #2
    antisocialite dirtyphotons's Avatar
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    yep. actually mine's a conquest but i was thinking the exact same thing today. that sag really sucks.

    i've been noticing recently how much more taut it gets when i pinch the skirts though. i think i'm gonna punch a couple holes and tie it up like so:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
    Because when fashion conflicts with function, I vote for function.

  3. #3
    如果你能讀了這個你講中文 genericbikedude's Avatar
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    I thought the B17 was supposed to sag? Like a hamock? I got rid of mine because it broke in unevenly.

  4. #4
    dillyshotback
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    mine is starting to squeek like a mouse moshpit. and a bit of sag. cant decide wether i should tighten it a smidge or not.

  5. #5
    thomas masini lives
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    this thread is blasphemous

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    supercorsa 4evah
    Quote Originally Posted by marqueemoon
    The correct response is "I live with your mom."

  7. #7
    antisocialite dirtyphotons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genericbikedude
    I thought the B17 was supposed to sag? Like a hamock?
    to an extent. but when a hammock gets too saggy, your back hurts right?

    it's the same thing, except your back is your gooch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
    Because when fashion conflicts with function, I vote for function.

  8. #8
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Put a straight edge across the top, between two middle rear rivets across to top front rivet, sag on mine is just under 3/4"
    Al

  9. #9
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    i just got my b17 a few weeks ago but have riden mostly flat stuff. i also noticed that it sits further forward than my selle italia trans am. i've been thinking about switching the seatpost for something that has some set back.

  10. #10
    antisocialite dirtyphotons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam
    Put a straight edge across the top, between two middle rear rivets across to top front rivet, sag on mine is just under 3/4"
    Al
    mine's about the same. but the real issue for me is that there's no longer a saddle angle where a) there isn't too much pressure on my wrists and b) there's no pressure on my pernium.

    this must be solved, and if it's not the brooks is a goner. but i think it's fixable. with a combination of subtle tying and some tensioning of the nose.

    Quote Originally Posted by vinnydelnegro
    i just got my b17 a few weeks ago but have riden mostly flat stuff. i also noticed that it sits further forward than my selle italia trans am. i've been thinking about switching the seatpost for something that has some set back.
    this sounds like a different issue but yes, the brooks sits way forward. a setback seatpost may help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
    Because when fashion conflicts with function, I vote for function.

  11. #11
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    Tying solves an awful lot of brooks vs gooch problems. I recommend it. You can make holes with a drill but a leather punch is a lot more tidy---the drill tends to suck the leather outwards so the hole winds up with frayed edges.

  12. #12
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyphotons
    mine's about the same. but the real issue for me is that there's no longer a saddle angle where a) there isn't too much pressure on my wrists and b) there's no pressure on my pernium.
    Exact problem I have.

    My solution was to get rid of the Brooks and try the Alliante.

    On trying the Alliante, I found that there was no way to push back into the seat for leverage when pushing hard seated. I switched back to the B17.

    In trying to keep the 'hammock' of the B17 less saggy, I have re-tenstioned, but the rivets in the front are pulling the leather, ovalizing the holes. (not from retensioning, but from use)

    The B17 was most comfortable new out of the box, when the top was relatively flat.

    Al

  13. #13
    antisocialite dirtyphotons's Avatar
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    i'm going to try and lace the skirts in the next couple days. i'll share pics and results when i'm done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
    Because when fashion conflicts with function, I vote for function.

  14. #14
    Senior Member nathbdp's Avatar
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    I'm curious how you've set the B17 up to reduce pressure on perineum? I went for a moderately long ride last weekend (about 5 hours) and came home with a lazy Johnson. ****, he was almost dead. Anyway, he's still recovering.

    I gotta fix something, and don't want to trade the jewels for biking.

    I've tried resting more on the sit bones towards the rear of the seat, but I sometimes forget and end up putting pressure on the perineum. Focussing on putting more of my weight into the pedals seems to have helped also.

    Any other ideas??

  15. #15
    Banned
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    tip your saddle down raise your bars up.

  16. #16
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    I tried retensioning as well as tying, and tying is superior by far. Retensioning stresses the rivet holes and promotes more stretching and sagging. Tying is mechanically a more efficient way to achieve tension---relative to retensioning, for *much* less added stress on the leather you get much more added firmness. You can see this for yourself by pinching the skirts of your brooks together while you sit on it. Instant tension without adding a huge amount of strain on the leather.

    The best thing to do for your saggy Brooks may well be to go back in time and stop yourself from adding all that proofide. Both my brookses (pro and b17) are proofide soaked and both required tying. OTOH they won't crack anytime soon, and the tying does make them firm enough.

    Nathbdp, as dutret suggested you should fiddle with overall body positioning relative to your b17 before throwing in the towel. It can make a surprisingly big difference. FWIW my b17 can easily take me on centuries and more, and my pro has been getting better as I move it down and forward; though it numbed on the one 160K I took it on, since moving it, it hasn't been a problem over my last few metrics and I am taking it out for a 225k tomorrow for the real torture test.
    Last edited by mander; 04-24-07 at 01:58 PM.

  17. #17
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
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    Try a Team Pro...much tougher than the B17, no sag, still have an ass bar.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  18. #18
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    Sucks to your ass bar! (sorry)

  19. #19
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    Try a Team Pro...much tougher than the B17, no sag, still have an ass bar.
    I am considering a Team Pro. Good news on the ass bar.

    Otherwise I'll get a new B17 and tie it right away.

    My old one I put about 3/4 can Proofide on over ~2yrs.

    I've started (long) rides with perfect tension (where I measure the 3/4" sag), but by the end the front rivets have stretched leather even more and its sagged (to discomfort) by end of ride.

    Al

  20. #20
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    About the ass bar...

    Has anyone else noticed this benefit for seated mashing?

    Al

  21. #21
    如果你能讀了這個你講中文 genericbikedude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathbdp
    I'm curious how you've set the B17 up to reduce pressure on perineum? I went for a moderately long ride last weekend (about 5 hours) and came home with a lazy Johnson. ****, he was almost dead. Anyway, he's still recovering.

    I gotta fix something, and don't want to trade the jewels for biking.

    I've tried resting more on the sit bones towards the rear of the seat, but I sometimes forget and end up putting pressure on the perineum. Focussing on putting more of my weight into the pedals seems to have helped also.

    Any other ideas??
    forget the brooks and get a terry fly. mine is great.

  22. #22
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    here is an image of the front rivets elongating holes
    Attached Images Attached Images

  23. #23
    antisocialite dirtyphotons's Avatar
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    okay, this afternoon i went to a shoe repair place and got them to punch some holes in the skirts and also bought some leather lace. best four bucks i ever spent.

    before:


    after:


    after closer inspection, the saddle wasn't as saggy as i'd claimed, maybe 1/2 inch from level. but the problem happened when i sat on it. the skirts just flapped out and the middle sank down. now with the laces (sorry for the crappy pic, but they're there) it feels a LOT more comfortable. the pressure is back on my butt, and not any tender spots.

    haven't ridden any real miles on it yet, but for a spin around the block it felt a million percent better.

    oh yeah, i didn't touch the tension adjustment bolt and i dont intend to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
    Because when fashion conflicts with function, I vote for function.

  24. #24
    THIS SPACE FOR RENT
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprintcarblue
    mine is starting to squeek like a mouse moshpit. and a bit of sag. cant decide wether i should tighten it a smidge or not.
    Tighten if it needs it, but search around and there was a really good thread about squeaking and cures for it.
    "I don't buy new frames, it just encourages them."

    -T.G.

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