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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 05-08-07, 01:53 AM   #1
mintyai
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suicidal?

The other day thanks to the "fixed/free hub" thread I discovered that fixed and free cogs had the same threading. Before, LBS's had always seemed pretty convinced that a free cog had to go on a free thread etc. I have a fixed/free ENO hub. I have put a 16t on the fixed side with a lockring to give me 75 inches for the road and a 14t on the other side, suicide; sans lock ring, to give 86 inches for the track. Is this the right way round, is there anything I can put on the suicide side to make it a bit safer?
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Old 05-08-07, 02:36 AM   #2
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Yeah, a lockring for a bottom bracket, preferably with threadlocker compound.

(for the 43657457231098th time)
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Old 05-08-07, 03:51 AM   #3
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The lock ring really does not lock anything if it is threaded the same direction. Use red loctite and hope for the best.
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Old 05-08-07, 04:47 AM   #4
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Tighten both the BB lockring and the cog down plenty tight and you'll be OK. I ran a setup like that on the street brakeless for a few months with not a bit of slippage, no loctite involved. If that side is only going to be used for the track, though, it's probably no big deal since you really don't put down much backpressure on the track. Hell, a lot of racers don't even bother with lockrings on the track...
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Old 05-08-07, 05:26 AM   #5
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If it's just for the track don't worry about it. Most people don't use lockrings unless required to anyway.
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Old 05-08-07, 06:29 AM   #6
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i thought this was a mike muir related thread
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Old 05-08-07, 06:37 AM   #7
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i thought this was a mike muir related thread
Join the army, the suic-wait ... ****. Ya, me too.
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Old 05-08-07, 09:06 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by dutret
If it's just for the track don't worry about it. Most people don't use lockrings unless required to anyway.
Yup. Just be careful not to resist. It will probably hold up to light resistance, but you don't wanna find out, do you?

The BB lockring might give you a little more peace of mind, but plenty of people have safely ridden on the track sans lockring.
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Old 05-08-07, 09:25 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by queerpunk
Yup. Just be careful not to resist. It will probably hold up to light resistance, but you don't wanna find out, do you?

whether you have a lockring or not you should NEVER be resisting hard enough to spin off a cog on the track. It's dangerous and unnecessary.
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Old 05-08-07, 09:26 AM   #10
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Properly tightnened and installed quality cogs on a quality hub shouldn't spin off anyways, track or street...

Last edited by BostonFixed; 05-08-07 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 05-08-07, 09:27 AM   #11
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ugh. i can only imagine. unnecessary indeed! i can't imagine how slowing down would be of any help in the kinds of packs and races i was watching out at kissena this weekend (VeloCity - so much fun...)
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Old 05-08-07, 09:40 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by queerpunk
ugh. i can only imagine. unnecessary indeed! i can't imagine how slowing down would be of any help in the kinds of packs and races i was watching out at kissena this weekend (VeloCity - so much fun...)
Noone has brakes, Noone can stop fast. Applying excessive pressure is dangerous for you and everyone behind you and therefore incredibly poor form. Maybe if you are in a five race full of street fg riders who shouldn't be racing yet it might be necessary if all of the dumbasses in front of you stop short. In general though this doesn't happen. Even higher cat track races aren't like the ****fest of braking that is a cat 5 crit.


If you are riding around people who belong in a race then stopping even in a pack hard enough to approach spinning off a cog simply won't happen.
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Old 05-08-07, 10:16 AM   #13
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dude, your folder is totally rad, but no track will let you ride that (i'm assuming you're referring to the folder, with the mention of the eno hub) -- not even sure if your local track will allow any bike that *requires* an eno hub (again, going out on a limb and assuming road conversion)

Last edited by jodypolk; 05-08-07 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 05-08-07, 10:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by jodypolk
dude, your folder is totally rad, but no track will let you ride that(i'm assuming you're referring to the folder, with the mention of the eno hub) -- not even sure if your local track will allow any bike that *requires* an eno hub (again, going out on a limb and assuming road conversion)

He already has been riding and just ignoring the unhappy looks from everyone else. Plenty of shallower tracks will allow road conversions and there is really nothing wrong with that. I for one would not be willing to ride in close quarters with someone on a folder though. Other people aren't so worried or more passive aggressive then I am apparently.
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Old 05-08-07, 10:26 AM   #15
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seriously? holy ****.

edit: also, you immortalized my parenthesis typo...
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Old 05-08-07, 10:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by queerpunk
... but plenty of people have safely ridden on the track sans lockring.

.....and on the street too, for that matter......
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Old 05-09-07, 06:26 AM   #17
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not really any thread sticking out past the cog to put a bb lock ring on (only about 0.5 mm)

I do ride it at the track, but only in training, not racing. I do come almost last in every pracitce race, but then I borrowed a track bike and still came last, so I know the problem is my legs, not the bike.

Just wondering why you are all so scared of it. If it is something to do with crashes, I don't really get it, if you are going to be throwing bits of metal at someone at 30mph, then does the shape of it really matter that much, unless it is really spikey. It is a really solid frame so it is not like anything is going to fall off it in the middle of the race.
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Old 05-09-07, 06:35 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintyai
not really any thread sticking out past the cog to put a bb lock ring on (only about 0.5 mm)

I do ride it at the track, but only in training, not racing. I do come almost last in every pracitce race, but then I borrowed a track bike and still came last, so I know the problem is my legs, not the bike.

Just wondering why you are all so scared of it. If it is something to do with crashes, I don't really get it, if you are going to be throwing bits of metal at someone at 30mph, then does the shape of it really matter that much, unless it is really spikey. It is a really solid frame so it is not like anything is going to fall off it in the middle of the race.
Because every folder I have ever ridden handles like ****. I don't want someone near me even in a practice race on a bike with that poor handling, especially a noob. Folders are fine for many things but riding shoulder to shoulder on a steeply banked surface is not one of them.
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Old 05-09-07, 12:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by dutret
Because every folder I have ever ridden handles like ****. I don't want someone near me even in a practice race on a bike with that poor handling, especially a noob. Folders are fine for many things but riding shoulder to shoulder on a steeply banked surface is not one of them.
No offense, but you haven't riden my bike and the handling is great. I definitely feel safer, more secure and more controlled on my bike than I did on the track bike I borrowed. But I am a complete noob so I wouldn't recomend riding that close to me, no matter what bike I am on.
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Old 05-09-07, 04:30 PM   #20
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Dude, that's so rad. You should start doing cyclocross races on it too. Then when people stop looking at you funny at the CX races, do a Downhill MTB race on it.
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Old 05-09-07, 04:43 PM   #21
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can you ride a folder conversion at the velodrome? methinks you can't. i'm also not an expert, and know rules often vary from 'drome to 'drome, but still...i sort of doubt they'll let you ride it there.
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Old 05-09-07, 06:31 PM   #22
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People are seriously having this conversation? Have some common sense and use a track bike on a track. The place isn't your own personal novelty show.
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Old 05-09-07, 06:39 PM   #23
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when I lived in asheville nc, I used to ride on their mellowdrome and have to dodge geared time trial bikes, roller blades, and strollers...
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Old 05-09-07, 07:16 PM   #24
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People are seriously having this conversation? Have some common sense and use a track bike on a track. The place isn't your own personal novelty show.
I am not doing it to be novel, I have tried track bikes, but I didn't like them, I don't like the handling which makes me feel unsafe on the banking and in a pack. I know I have a serious minority opinion with this, but I am quite competitive by nature and if I thought I could do better on a track bike, I would be riding one.

And anyway this was meant to be a thread about suicide fixed cogs, not criticising my bike.
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Old 05-09-07, 09:19 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by mintyai
No offense, but you haven't riden my bike and the handling is great.
No but folders in general sacrifice handling for foldability. Super long stem + small wheel = nearly impossible to perfect both balance and steering geometry. Even if they didn't 20" wheels with your COM at close to normal height is going to lead to ****ty handling. Not to mention your absurd position on the bike(from your help my hands hurt thread) but of course you could replicate that on a track bike anyway.

If you don't think you would do better on a track bike you are seriously delusional. Your tiny wheels may be more aerodynamic but a track bike will:
-Handle better which is of prime importance unless you are purely a breakaway guy.
-be much much stiffer. While the relation between stiffness and efficiency is debatable I think anyone who has mashed on a folder can see pretty clearly where the super long stem and folding lead to a bike that is far from optimal.
-allow better position on the bike. Sure you can adjust it by moving the seat and bars but the limitations of folding combined with them not being meant as race bikes makes it hard to get an ideal position for the short efforts required on the track and even harder to match this position with ideal weight distribution.

Maybe it's not enough of an advantage to make up for any engine or tactical deficiencies right now. But you are starting to sound like you think of your folder as a long term solution on the track which it isn't. You probably feel uncomfortable on a track bike because you are used to riding your ****ty folder which(probably) steers with the bars as opposed to your weight.

Your suicide cog is fine but seriously consider using a track bike on the track even if it is just a loaner.
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