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Thread: suicidal?

  1. #1
    a litte bit fixed mintyai's Avatar
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    suicidal?

    The other day thanks to the "fixed/free hub" thread I discovered that fixed and free cogs had the same threading. Before, LBS's had always seemed pretty convinced that a free cog had to go on a free thread etc. I have a fixed/free ENO hub. I have put a 16t on the fixed side with a lockring to give me 75 inches for the road and a 14t on the other side, suicide; sans lock ring, to give 86 inches for the track. Is this the right way round, is there anything I can put on the suicide side to make it a bit safer?
    24" - 520mm wheeled folding fixed :: http://www.minty-ai.net/bike

  2. #2
    o.O Seggybop's Avatar
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    Yeah, a lockring for a bottom bracket, preferably with threadlocker compound.

    (for the 43657457231098th time)
    mi yu mi yu

  3. #3
    Senior Member filtersweep's Avatar
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    The lock ring really does not lock anything if it is threaded the same direction. Use red loctite and hope for the best.

  4. #4
    Beausage is Beautiful Fugazi Dave's Avatar
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    Tighten both the BB lockring and the cog down plenty tight and you'll be OK. I ran a setup like that on the street brakeless for a few months with not a bit of slippage, no loctite involved. If that side is only going to be used for the track, though, it's probably no big deal since you really don't put down much backpressure on the track. Hell, a lot of racers don't even bother with lockrings on the track...

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    If it's just for the track don't worry about it. Most people don't use lockrings unless required to anyway.

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    Banned Son of ronex's Avatar
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    i thought this was a mike muir related thread

  7. #7
    Don't smoke, Mike. shapelike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son of ronex
    i thought this was a mike muir related thread
    Join the army, the suic-wait ... ****. Ya, me too.

  8. #8
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dutret
    If it's just for the track don't worry about it. Most people don't use lockrings unless required to anyway.
    Yup. Just be careful not to resist. It will probably hold up to light resistance, but you don't wanna find out, do you?

    The BB lockring might give you a little more peace of mind, but plenty of people have safely ridden on the track sans lockring.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk
    Yup. Just be careful not to resist. It will probably hold up to light resistance, but you don't wanna find out, do you?

    whether you have a lockring or not you should NEVER be resisting hard enough to spin off a cog on the track. It's dangerous and unnecessary.

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    Properly tightnened and installed quality cogs on a quality hub shouldn't spin off anyways, track or street...
    Last edited by BostonFixed; 05-08-07 at 09:34 AM.

  11. #11
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    ugh. i can only imagine. unnecessary indeed! i can't imagine how slowing down would be of any help in the kinds of packs and races i was watching out at kissena this weekend (VeloCity - so much fun...)
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk
    ugh. i can only imagine. unnecessary indeed! i can't imagine how slowing down would be of any help in the kinds of packs and races i was watching out at kissena this weekend (VeloCity - so much fun...)
    Noone has brakes, Noone can stop fast. Applying excessive pressure is dangerous for you and everyone behind you and therefore incredibly poor form. Maybe if you are in a five race full of street fg riders who shouldn't be racing yet it might be necessary if all of the dumbasses in front of you stop short. In general though this doesn't happen. Even higher cat track races aren't like the ****fest of braking that is a cat 5 crit.


    If you are riding around people who belong in a race then stopping even in a pack hard enough to approach spinning off a cog simply won't happen.

  13. #13
    never eaten better listen jodypolk's Avatar
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    dude, your folder is totally rad, but no track will let you ride that (i'm assuming you're referring to the folder, with the mention of the eno hub) -- not even sure if your local track will allow any bike that *requires* an eno hub (again, going out on a limb and assuming road conversion)
    Last edited by jodypolk; 05-08-07 at 10:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jodypolk
    dude, your folder is totally rad, but no track will let you ride that(i'm assuming you're referring to the folder, with the mention of the eno hub) -- not even sure if your local track will allow any bike that *requires* an eno hub (again, going out on a limb and assuming road conversion)

    He already has been riding and just ignoring the unhappy looks from everyone else. Plenty of shallower tracks will allow road conversions and there is really nothing wrong with that. I for one would not be willing to ride in close quarters with someone on a folder though. Other people aren't so worried or more passive aggressive then I am apparently.

  15. #15
    never eaten better listen jodypolk's Avatar
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    seriously? holy ****.

    edit: also, you immortalized my parenthesis typo...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk
    ... but plenty of people have safely ridden on the track sans lockring.

    .....and on the street too, for that matter......

  17. #17
    a litte bit fixed mintyai's Avatar
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    not really any thread sticking out past the cog to put a bb lock ring on (only about 0.5 mm)

    I do ride it at the track, but only in training, not racing. I do come almost last in every pracitce race, but then I borrowed a track bike and still came last, so I know the problem is my legs, not the bike.

    Just wondering why you are all so scared of it. If it is something to do with crashes, I don't really get it, if you are going to be throwing bits of metal at someone at 30mph, then does the shape of it really matter that much, unless it is really spikey. It is a really solid frame so it is not like anything is going to fall off it in the middle of the race.
    24" - 520mm wheeled folding fixed :: http://www.minty-ai.net/bike

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    Quote Originally Posted by mintyai
    not really any thread sticking out past the cog to put a bb lock ring on (only about 0.5 mm)

    I do ride it at the track, but only in training, not racing. I do come almost last in every pracitce race, but then I borrowed a track bike and still came last, so I know the problem is my legs, not the bike.

    Just wondering why you are all so scared of it. If it is something to do with crashes, I don't really get it, if you are going to be throwing bits of metal at someone at 30mph, then does the shape of it really matter that much, unless it is really spikey. It is a really solid frame so it is not like anything is going to fall off it in the middle of the race.
    Because every folder I have ever ridden handles like ****. I don't want someone near me even in a practice race on a bike with that poor handling, especially a noob. Folders are fine for many things but riding shoulder to shoulder on a steeply banked surface is not one of them.

  19. #19
    a litte bit fixed mintyai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dutret
    Because every folder I have ever ridden handles like ****. I don't want someone near me even in a practice race on a bike with that poor handling, especially a noob. Folders are fine for many things but riding shoulder to shoulder on a steeply banked surface is not one of them.
    No offense, but you haven't riden my bike and the handling is great. I definitely feel safer, more secure and more controlled on my bike than I did on the track bike I borrowed. But I am a complete noob so I wouldn't recomend riding that close to me, no matter what bike I am on.
    24" - 520mm wheeled folding fixed :: http://www.minty-ai.net/bike

  20. #20
    *****es love tarck kemmer's Avatar
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    Dude, that's so rad. You should start doing cyclocross races on it too. Then when people stop looking at you funny at the CX races, do a Downhill MTB race on it.

  21. #21
    live free or die trying humancongereel's Avatar
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    can you ride a folder conversion at the velodrome? methinks you can't. i'm also not an expert, and know rules often vary from 'drome to 'drome, but still...i sort of doubt they'll let you ride it there.
    have:ea50 flats, black, light, stiff.
    144 bcd 3/32" 49t sugino track chainring, possibly 75.

    want: risers, light, stiff, 1", black if that can be
    144 bcd 46t or 47t chainring any kind or width

  22. #22
    Don't smoke, Mike. shapelike's Avatar
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    People are seriously having this conversation? Have some common sense and use a track bike on a track. The place isn't your own personal novelty show.

  23. #23
    Bow$$ dustinlikewhat's Avatar
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    when I lived in asheville nc, I used to ride on their mellowdrome and have to dodge geared time trial bikes, roller blades, and strollers...

  24. #24
    a litte bit fixed mintyai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shapelike
    People are seriously having this conversation? Have some common sense and use a track bike on a track. The place isn't your own personal novelty show.
    I am not doing it to be novel, I have tried track bikes, but I didn't like them, I don't like the handling which makes me feel unsafe on the banking and in a pack. I know I have a serious minority opinion with this, but I am quite competitive by nature and if I thought I could do better on a track bike, I would be riding one.

    And anyway this was meant to be a thread about suicide fixed cogs, not criticising my bike.
    24" - 520mm wheeled folding fixed :: http://www.minty-ai.net/bike

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    Quote Originally Posted by mintyai
    No offense, but you haven't riden my bike and the handling is great.
    No but folders in general sacrifice handling for foldability. Super long stem + small wheel = nearly impossible to perfect both balance and steering geometry. Even if they didn't 20" wheels with your COM at close to normal height is going to lead to ****ty handling. Not to mention your absurd position on the bike(from your help my hands hurt thread) but of course you could replicate that on a track bike anyway.

    If you don't think you would do better on a track bike you are seriously delusional. Your tiny wheels may be more aerodynamic but a track bike will:
    -Handle better which is of prime importance unless you are purely a breakaway guy.
    -be much much stiffer. While the relation between stiffness and efficiency is debatable I think anyone who has mashed on a folder can see pretty clearly where the super long stem and folding lead to a bike that is far from optimal.
    -allow better position on the bike. Sure you can adjust it by moving the seat and bars but the limitations of folding combined with them not being meant as race bikes makes it hard to get an ideal position for the short efforts required on the track and even harder to match this position with ideal weight distribution.

    Maybe it's not enough of an advantage to make up for any engine or tactical deficiencies right now. But you are starting to sound like you think of your folder as a long term solution on the track which it isn't. You probably feel uncomfortable on a track bike because you are used to riding your ****ty folder which(probably) steers with the bars as opposed to your weight.

    Your suicide cog is fine but seriously consider using a track bike on the track even if it is just a loaner.

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