Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-06-07, 04:44 PM   #1
chuckdupp
up the freaks
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: brooklyn,ny/chattanooga,tn
Bikes: converted waterford paramount
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
radial lacing

ive been seeing more and more people with their front wheels laced radially. i know it looks rad, are there any other reasons though? ive never had a wheel built like that so i wouldnt know
chuckdupp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 04:53 PM   #2
sorsha6
Senior Member
 
sorsha6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Back in Nyack
Bikes: 2007 Schwinn Madison
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i did it 'cause it looks cool. that's about it.
sorsha6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 05:05 PM   #3
roughrider504
Senior Member
 
roughrider504's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Orleans
Bikes:
Posts: 1,214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The wheel can be built stiffer if I remember right. Some say aerodynamics.
roughrider504 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 05:13 PM   #4
bonechilling
Run What 'Ya Brung
 
bonechilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 5,694
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lighter, stiffer, easier to build.
bonechilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 05:27 PM   #5
Boss Moniker
It's an old photo
 
Boss Moniker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Entropia
Bikes: Cannondale R500, Specialized Hardrock
Posts: 774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Spokes are slightly shorter, thus lighter.
Spokes are straight from hub to rim, thus stiffer (in plane of wheel, and when no power is transmitted)
All the spokes can go on the inside of the hub flange, and don't need to bend over each other, thus more aerodynamic.
No lacing is required to build, thus easier.
Boss Moniker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 05:33 PM   #6
roadfix
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 18,589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Everyone's very first wheel build should be a radially laced wheel. A no-brainer build...
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 05:40 PM   #7
sprintcarblue
dillyshotback
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: M&M@MN
Bikes: '02 Barcode, Le Tour IV, Hoffman E.P.
Posts: 631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Radial laced wheels tend to have more lateral strength. But, they have a tendency to develop more of a hop if you do hit potholes/curbs/etc.
sprintcarblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 05:50 PM   #8
Cynikal
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 5,934
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
But you can't put spoke cards in them
Cynikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 05:51 PM   #9
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Posts: 28,306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
New hipster look: check
Not strong wheel: check
operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 06:01 PM   #10
bonechilling
Run What 'Ya Brung
 
bonechilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 5,694
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator
New hipster look: check
Not strong wheel: check
What a stupid thing to say. It's a ****ing lacing pattern,
not a hot new band from Williamsburg.
bonechilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 06:03 PM   #11
Hirohsima
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sacramento
Bikes:
Posts: 1,013
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator
New hipster look: check
Not strong wheel: check
been using radial laced front wheels for 12+ years,... when did radial become new again?
Hirohsima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 06:44 PM   #12
chuckdupp
up the freaks
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: brooklyn,ny/chattanooga,tn
Bikes: converted waterford paramount
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirohsima
been using radial laced front wheels for 12+ years,... when did radial become new again?
maybe its just that until the last year or so i didnt care therefore notice things like a radial build. it definately is abit of a fad, ill probably do it next time i build a wheel just cause it looks cool though
chuckdupp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 07:01 PM   #13
chunts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Bikes:
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckdupp
maybe its just that until the last year or so i didnt care therefore notice things like a radial build. it definately is abit of a fad, ill probably do it next time i build a wheel just cause it looks cool though
some hub manufacturers have a clause that voids the warranty if you radial lace them, and there's a good reason: when cross lacing, you end up with two adjacent spokes on the rim going to opposite or near-opposite sides of the hub. when you hit a hard bump or drop off a curb the force is distributed to those opposite sides. when laced radially, the force of that bump gets concentrated on one smaller part of the hub flange and makes it more likely to crack.

I've heard in general that only forged aluminum hubs should be laced radially, and CNC'd aluminum should not be.
chunts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 07:04 PM   #14
deathhare
:jarckass:
 
deathhare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nashville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunts
I've heard in general that only forged aluminum hubs should be laced radially, and CNC'd aluminum should not be.
Ive read the same thing. But with the trend of radial lacing i havent seen anyone with cracked or broken hubs.
deathhare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 07:52 PM   #15
Hirohsima
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sacramento
Bikes:
Posts: 1,013
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Until recently front Dura Ace hubs were not supposed to be radial laced. Only the latest model was designed for radial. I have used radial on pretty much everything and have had no issues. The only hubs I have ever seen split or have issues was 1) an American Classic cirac 1980 front hub (The tension on that was crazy high) and 2) a high flange campy hub that was in an accident. I am sure there have been others, but for the most part it is pretty safe.

As for it being a fad, I guess so, but I don't see this fad going away. Like Aerobars. People thought it was a fad 18ish years ago,... I still have one on my bike today.... but that is another thread where people can agree to disagree
Hirohsima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 08:51 PM   #16
mykrrrr
o harro buttercup
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Detroitish
Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Sting Ray Deluxe
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynikal
But you can't put spoke cards in them
That means you just put more and more spoke cars in the rear wheel and with time you'll get an aero disc rear wheel.
mykrrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 10:31 PM   #17
schnee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 3,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I've seen some crazy zoot rear wheels with one side radial, but the other side always has some form of cross spoking because of the torque.
schnee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-07, 11:21 PM   #18
Cynikal
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 5,934
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
^Sheldon has a good article on why that is better.

Edit: Not Sheldon but linked from his site.

http://www.geocities.com/spokeanwheel/lacingsr.htm#hr
Cynikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-07, 09:15 PM   #19
NNNN
surging w slash energy
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The article doesn't mention what would be different if building a fixed rear wheel. Fixed rear wheels are put through much more stress (rotational, torque) than are road wheels. I'd guess that the half-radial rear wheel would not be a smart choice for a fixed wheel. It might be doable, but there'd probably be better options.

Anyone know for sure what the difference is?
NNNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-07, 10:00 PM   #20
Cynikal
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 5,934
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I see no point on a fixed symetrical wheel. He makes the point that asymetrical hubs benefit. Just build your rear wheel in a 3x and you'll be happy.
Cynikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-07, 12:09 AM   #21
oldsprinter
oldsprinter
 
oldsprinter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tokyo
Bikes:
Posts: 935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by schnee
I've seen some crazy zoot rear wheels with one side radial, but the other side always has some form of cross spoking because of the torque.
Not always, I've seen two rear wheels laced radially both sides. People say it can't be done, but both wheels were raced, by top riders (former UK champ and Oz champ).

One was 24 hole Campag Record hub laced to Mavic CX 18, the other was 36 hole Campag laced with Hoshi blades to Araya SuperAero. Neither rider complained about torque transmission.
oldsprinter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-07, 12:13 AM   #22
deathhare
:jarckass:
 
deathhare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nashville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsprinter
Not always, I've seen two rear wheels laced radially both sides. People say it can't be done, but both wheels were raced, by top riders (former UK champ and Oz champ).

One was 24 hole Campag Record hub laced to Mavic CX 18, the other was 36 hole Campag laced with Hoshi blades to Araya SuperAero. Neither rider complained about torque transmission.
But maybe not the best for the street? Skids and skips?
Id like to hear more opinions on running rear radial laced on the street.
deathhare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-07, 12:18 AM   #23
oldsprinter
oldsprinter
 
oldsprinter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tokyo
Bikes:
Posts: 935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathhare
But maybe not the best for the street? Skids and skips?
Id like to hear more opinions on running rear radial laced on the street.
Probably worse than useless for skids.


That said, I've seen a guy ride a 1min 08sec kilo on the radial laced 36 holer. What's the difference in force between an acceleration like that and the deceleration involved in skidding?
oldsprinter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-07, 12:21 AM   #24
deathhare
:jarckass:
 
deathhare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nashville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsprinter
What's the difference in force between an acceleration like that and the deceleration involved in skidding?
I was thinking something along those same lines. Sprint forces from the UK monster champs you were talking about gotta be serious.
But those guys also probably ran newly laced stuff for every race.
Not like riding daily on the stuff for months.
deathhare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-07, 12:24 AM   #25
oldsprinter
oldsprinter
 
oldsprinter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tokyo
Bikes:
Posts: 935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathhare
I was thinking something along those same lines. Sprint forces from the UK monster champs you were talking about gotta be serious.
But those guys also probably ran newly laced stuff for every race.
Not like riding daily on the stuff for months.
Actually the 36 holer was used every week for 3 years without being tweaked.

The 24 holer was built solely for track pursuit riding. Got used just a few times a year.
oldsprinter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:12 AM.