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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 07-13-07, 08:36 AM   #1
sp00ki
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(non machined deep v as a brake surface?)+(sticky brake pad?)

Here's the scenereo: My girlfriend is moving from a coaster brake to fixed with a front brake. she currently has a pair of velocity's deep v wheels (non machined). I was speaking to a friend (quite a few years experience as a mechanic in pretty high volume shops, rides deep v's on one of his bicycles himself) who recommended simply keeping the front wheel intact versus re-lacing the hub to a deep v with a machined braking surface. Two things:

1) has anyone used a brake with a non-machined deep v? if so, how able to stop were you? How much of a difference did you notice in wet conditions? Since most of the stopping is going to occur at the pedals->rear wheel anyway, was the non-machined brake surface sufficient for extra stopping power in close situations?

2) can anyone recommend an incredibly sticky brake pad? Something that works well on less than ideal surfaces, and perhaps in wet conditions?

Thanks
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Old 07-13-07, 08:45 AM   #2
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Pads? Koolstop Salmon. They're designed for wet conditions.

From what i've read, stopping power on painted rims will pretty much suck until the paint is worn through. One thing you might want to look into though is getting the rims lightly machined. Check here:

http://peterwhitecycles.com/velocity.asp

About 1/3 of the way down there's a picture of a previously painted rim that was machined just enough to provide a proper braking surface.
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Old 07-13-07, 08:49 AM   #3
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I see. How long do you think it'd take for the paint to wear down? I wonder if i can carefully spin the wheel against a sander to expose some metal...
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Old 07-13-07, 08:53 AM   #4
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If they're painted or powdercoated you might have trouble.. if they're anodized like mine you should be fine. Stopping power is the same because I think most machined rims are clear anodized as well, and it takes a long time to wear down if you keep them clean.
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Old 07-13-07, 08:56 AM   #5
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Does anyone know about this first hand? Not to disregard what was discussed above, but my friend believes the paint surface is sufficient when aided by legs (rear wheel), even before skipping. I'm really curious about this one.
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Old 07-13-07, 08:59 AM   #6
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If you search you'll see that this has been covered a bunch of times. Powdercoated rims will squeal like a stuck pig and you'll lose a lot of power in the rain, however the brake will still "work". I know several people who use that set up.
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Old 07-13-07, 09:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00ki
Since most of the stopping is going to occur at the pedals->rear wheel anyway, was the non-machined brake surface sufficient for extra stopping power in close situations?
incorrect.
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Old 07-13-07, 09:32 AM   #8
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This may or may not be helpful... but I've heard there are cork pads. That might keep the paint intact and give you some stopping power.
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Old 07-13-07, 09:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00ki
Does anyone know about this first hand? Not to disregard what was discussed above, but my friend believes the paint surface is sufficient when aided by legs (rear wheel), even before skipping. I'm really curious about this one.
Depending on which Deep V's you have, the color may be anodized. If so, the braking will be fine, and likely won't even wear through the color. Otherwise, don't do it. What is more important to you. Style/saving a penny or your girlfriend's safety?
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Old 07-13-07, 09:40 AM   #10
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I have electric red deep v's that just showed up yesterday but haven't put them on the ss bike yet. I can't tell if they are painted or anodized. Almost look like clear coated anodized. I have a disc brake in front which will provide most of my stopping power. Not sure yet what I'm gonna do in the rear. Run canti brakes on the non machined rim or rebuild the wheel with a machined lip? Since I have the front disc I'm leaning towards leaving the rear as is.

Last edited by d2create; 07-13-07 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 07-13-07, 09:52 AM   #11
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i was in the same situation when i built up my new fix recently. i mounted a regular dia comp front brake with standard shimano pads, but i haven't even used the brake yet in over a month. if you just keep it as an emergency brake and focus on learning to brake with her legs, she may be pleasantly surprised by how infrequently she actually needs to use it. incidentally, i have seen non-machined wheels after frequent brake use "machining"- they look awful and very uneven.
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Old 07-13-07, 10:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nims
Depending on which Deep V's you have, the color may be anodized. If so, the braking will be fine, and likely won't even wear through the color. Otherwise, don't do it. What is more important to you. Style/saving a penny or your girlfriend's safety?
Yeah, i think we're going to go this route. I discussed it with a few others, and we realized that having the extra non-machined white hoop AND giving her a superior brake surface to fall back on is the best bet. If she gets strong and decides to go brakeless, she'll have a super clean non-machined front we can re-lace to her hub.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dutret
Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00ki
Since most of the stopping is going to occur at the pedals->rear wheel anyway, was the non-machined brake surface sufficient for extra stopping power in close situations?
incorrect.
Wow... didn't realize a question could be incorrect. Try reading before being unhelpful next time. thanks!
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Old 07-13-07, 10:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00ki
Wow... didn't realize a question could be incorrect. Try reading before being unhelpful next time. thanks!
Well it can. In this case it is because it first makes an assertion which is incorrect and then asks a question based on it.

The whole reason it is so incredibly stupid to ride without a front brake is because no matter how you are slowing the back wheel the front will provide the majority of the braking power.
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Old 07-13-07, 10:31 AM   #14
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Unless you're not using it.

Jesus christ, it's become way too apparent that you've never ridden fixed, can you please stop illustrating it for us time and time again??
Here, a little info that google apparently doesn't teach you:
When you ride fixed with a front brake, you stop with your legs. The vast majority of stops you perform are done without ever touching your brake lever. From TIME TO TIME you perform emergency stops with your brake. This occurs roughly one out of every twenty (or less, as can be seen in posts above) stops-- and even then, it's a slight feathering, rather than a full clamp. Hence-- as everyone else reading the thread managed to comprehend-- the majority of stopping is done with the legs, not the brake.

Please keep your posts to the road forum, assuming that you ride anything with two wheels at all and aren't completely full of **** all around.
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Old 07-13-07, 10:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00ki
Unless you're not using it. Jesus christ, we already get that you've never ridden fixed, can you please stop illustrating it for us time and time again??
Here, a little info that google apparently doesn't teach you:
When you ride fixed with a front brake, you stop with your legs. The vast majority of stops you perform are done without ever using your brake. From TIME TO TIME you perform emergency stops with your brake. This occurs roughly one out of every twenty five (or less, as can be seen in posts above) stops. The majority of stopping is done with the legs-- not with the brake.

Please keep your posts to the road forum, assuming that you ride anything with two wheels at all and aren't completely full of **** all around.
God you're ****ed. As far as I know there is very poor temporal distribution of stopping force so just because you need it infrequently with a fixed gear does mean you need less of it. The extra stopping power you need from a front brake fixed IS THE EXACT ****ING SAME as the extra stopping power you need from a front brake with a freewheel.

Anyway there is absolutely no reason why you have to stop with your legs if you have a front brake.

There are a lot of ****ups in the road forum but when one really wants to be amused by peoples complete lack of reasoning skills and overall idiocy there is really no substitute for ss/fg
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Old 07-13-07, 10:40 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutret
As far as I know there is very poor temporal distribution of stopping force so just because you need it infrequently with a fixed gear does mean you need less of it.
Awesome post.
Ride a fixed gear before posting about them in the future, please. Thanks.

At any rate, thanks to everyone else for the pertinent info. As stated above, we're going with a machined rim. If anyone's curious, the brake she'll most likely be using is a white gran royal compe, which from what i understand is a gorgeous brake (i'm swinging by the shop tomorrow am to pick it up).
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Old 07-13-07, 10:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00ki
Awesome post.
Ride a fixed gear before posting about them in the future, please. Thanks.
besides the attempt at levity please explain what in that suggests that I have not ridden a fixed gear. I'm kind curious what makes stupid ****s like you think that comments like these are worth the trouble of typing.
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Old 07-13-07, 10:49 AM   #18
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basically (go through your post history to see what i'm talking about), every single discussion about fixed gear you participate in is packed with easily googleable factoids, but never any (ANY) real world experience. It's obvious as day.
Again, i could be wrong-- in which case you're simply a ****** with poor social skills-- but i doubt that.

Basically, pics or you're lying.
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Old 07-13-07, 10:53 AM   #19
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Here's my nonmichined V's after a year of braking.



Never been a problem at all in all weather conditions. However, if had to do it all again, I'd have bought machined rimes. (I don't actually know if these were powdercoated or anadyzed)
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Old 07-13-07, 10:53 AM   #20
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Didn't dutret post a picture of his fixed gear Cross-Check? As well as the picture of him flicking us all off while sitting on the bars of a Pista? Works for me.
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Old 07-13-07, 10:55 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00ki
basically (go through your post history to see what i'm talking about), every single discussion about fixed gear you participate in is packed with googleable factoids, but never any (ANY) real world experience. It's obvious as day.
Again, i could be wrong-- in which case you're simply a ****** with poor social skills-- but i doubt that.

Basically, pics or you're lying.
Yes i guess when you are such a ****ing moron that you can't understand the difference between needing to brake frequently and needing to brake hard anything with a little bit of logic must seem like a googled factoid to you.

There have already been pics after other dumb****s like you who didn't want to admit they were wrong and made similiar assertions. I just don't understand why anyone would make such claims about someones experience on the internet unless they showed a complete and total lack of understanding like coasting/tire slipping guy.
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Old 07-13-07, 10:57 AM   #22
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In the event that the above is true, please see the line about having poor social skills.
My humblest appology, ******.

ps, just to make this go a little further-- you don't NEED to brake hard if you're already covering the majority of the stopping with your legs. You just need a little bit of assistance in a pinch, which is 1) most likely covered by braking even on a painted surface, and 2) why i'm still pretty convinced you've never ridden fixed. If you did, you'd know this.
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Old 07-13-07, 10:58 AM   #23
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In the event that the above is true, please see the line about having poor social skills.
My humblest appology, ******.
I'd rather be a ****** then an idiot. At least I can be nice when I want to.
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Old 07-13-07, 11:00 AM   #24
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I think the assumption that you're a ****** is far more accurate than that of my being an idiot. Don't blame your inexperience in what has for whatever reason become your favorite pet topic on the assumed stupidity of others.
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Old 07-13-07, 11:04 AM   #25
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I think the assumption that you're a ****** is far more accurate than that of my being an idiot. Don't blame your inexperience in what has for whatever reason become your favorite pet topic on the assumed stupidity of others.
I just see no other explanation for why you would think you would need less braking power in the front of a fg if you knew that most of the braking power comes from the front brake on a freewheeled bike. Either you are stupid an unable to make a very simple logical jump or you are ignorant of something which is posted here almost weekly.
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