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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 09-07-07, 11:57 PM   #1
Halebopp
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Fixed gear for riding that can also be raced

Any ideas as far as entry level track bikes that would work for city riding as well as the occaisional veledrome race? I want something that will function well but still be racy.

I was looking at the Schwinn Madison, but will that by too heavy? What about its geometry?
Pista? I've heard bad BB stories...

any other ideas? Thanks.
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Old 09-08-07, 12:12 AM   #2
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a real racer can race on anything!

sorry, that's a 'just friends' throwback.
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Old 09-08-07, 12:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halebopp View Post
Any ideas as far as entry level track bikes that would work for city riding as well as the occaisional veledrome race? I want something that will function well but still be racy.

I was looking at the Schwinn Madison, but will that by too heavy? What about its geometry?
Pista? I've heard bad BB stories...

any other ideas? Thanks.
Sounds like you are trying to get into too many things all at once--all of this is very subjective
and based on personal taste. A comfortable street bike with a little bit more fork rake or even risers
would be incompatible with track racing. . .vice versa. . .that said I really liked the khs flite 100 I rode one
day. . .didn't get one but I liked it and could see riding it on the street. . .don't know much about what works at the track . . .

Last edited by Suttree; 09-08-07 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 09-08-07, 12:44 AM   #4
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Specialized Langster Comp maybe???? I dunno... get a nice fixie for racing, and then convert a piece of crap for around town.
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Old 09-08-07, 12:54 AM   #5
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yeah, my suggestion would be to build up a nice racing bike and an absolute beater for around the town. Once you get into building them you're going to want more bikes to work on anyway. Might as well have two.
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Old 09-08-07, 01:03 AM   #6
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Get a pista, upgrade your drivetrain/bb and throw a flip/flop hub on it so you have a street gear and a track gear. I would start racing mine if there was a velodrome here.
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Old 09-08-07, 02:32 AM   #7
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So what is it? A flip-flip hub? Or a flop-flop hub? Sorry--- just being flip. Most of my hubs run fixed/fixed. But I don't know that flip-flop actually has a definitely meaning, other than it is two sided. So you might mellow out on this issue just a bit.

I don't think that it is that big of a deal- regardless, since I would not want to race on the same tires, and would likely need a different chain for the track.

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goddammit, a flip-flop hub is exactly what you would NOT want for that application. flip-flop means fixed/free. FIXED/FIXED is what EVERYONE should want, regardless of how many cogs or freewheels they want, because YOU CAN RUN EITHER ONE ON EITHER SIDE. for chrissakes, at least put a modicum of effort into the misinformed advice you're throwing around.
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Old 09-08-07, 06:41 AM   #8
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goddammit, a flip-flop hub is exactly what you would NOT want for that application. flip-flop means fixed/free. FIXED/FIXED is what EVERYONE should want, regardless of how many cogs or freewheels they want, because YOU CAN RUN EITHER ONE ON EITHER SIDE. for chrissakes, at least put a modicum of effort into the misinformed advice you're throwing around.
wow. my advice: don't be like this guy.
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Old 09-08-07, 06:50 AM   #9
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If you're actually riding on a track and you're not doing match sprints or anything where stopping suddenly is part of the event, you shouldn't be applying any backpressure. So you should be able to thread a track cog on the freewheel side of a fixed/free hub (or put a BB lockring on it if you don't trust yourself). Fixed/fixed is the better choice though, no question
Also, flip-flop means 'threaded on both sides', not fixed/free. My mind is constantly blown by all the expert misinformation being vehemently distributed here.
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Old 09-08-07, 07:09 AM   #10
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wow. my advice: don't be like this guy.
Especially if you're wrong. Flip flop simply means you can flip your wheel over and ride whatever's on the other side. It could be a fixed/fixed hub, free/fixed, or free/free.. most just happen to be free/fixed.

If you're never going to ride with a freewheel, get fixed/fixed.
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Old 09-08-07, 07:25 AM   #11
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wow. my advice: don't be like this guy.
+1. Most shops will throw in a douch-ey attitude fo' free when you buy a fix from them, but I suggest that you turn it down.

You'll probably save yourself a lot of hassle if you accept that you need two bikes. Once you set up your velo bike with nice componentry, you'll be a nervous wreck if you have to lock it up on the street. Convert some junk for city use, and put your money into the racing item.
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Old 09-08-07, 07:31 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by fischer, max View Post
this is just flat-out wrong. a fixed threading is exactly the same as a freewheel threading, just with the added capacity for a lockring. all you get with a free side is a loss of functionality.

so, if you ever want to run two fixed cogs, get fixed/fixed,
if you ever want to run one cog and one freewheel, get fixed/fixed,
if you ever want to run two freewheels, get fixed/fixed.
I don't know what hubs you are looking at, but freewheel threads and cog threads are quite different. The freewheel threads are a bit wider, to accommodate the body of the freewheel. Track threads have the smaller-diameter reverse threading to accommodate the lockring. I would never run my freewheel on the fixed side, as part of the freewheel body would be unsupported.

You're out to lunch on this one, pal. You don't lose functionality with fixed/free, you just have a different setup.

Last edited by Gordiep; 09-08-07 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 09-08-07, 07:32 AM   #13
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in every conversation i've ever had, flip flop hub refers to any duplex-style hub, regardless of the type of threading it's got on it.

ANYWAY, i think any budget/starter/intro-level track or fixedbike will suit your purposes just fine. i raced at kissena on an IRO mark V. for a starter bike, the most important thing is going to be your comfort, not the nuances of geometry. a pista, KHS, or mercier will also do you just fine.

anyway, yes, get a wheel that's fixed/fixed, to give you a street gearing and a track gearing. a doable gearing combo might be 49/17 and 49/15.

Gordiep, max fischer is right - you can put a freewheel on fixed threading. getting a fixed/fixed means you can run either side either way. the same cannot be said for fixed/free (i mean, sure, you can screw a track cog onto freewheel threading, but it's not an ideal setup, is it).
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Old 09-08-07, 07:40 AM   #14
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I wouldn't rub freewheel on a fixed thread just like I wouldn't run a fixed cog on a freewheel thread. Just because they fit doesn't mean you should do it. Both scenarios sound like a recipe for a ruined/stripped hub to me.
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Old 09-08-07, 07:43 AM   #15
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I don't dispute that a freewheel can be run on a fixed threading, but the fixed side threading has fewer threads than the free...leaving the freewheel partially unsupported. Just because something can be done, doesn't mean that it should. The hubs are designed a certain way for a reason. I think I'm gonna trust decades of rigorous R&D over some badly-punctuated interweb rant.
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Old 09-08-07, 07:44 AM   #16
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that may just be because fixed/free hubs are more common. probably because most people don't vary their gearing that often, and it's somewhat cheaper to manufacture and sell a fixed/free hub than a fixed/fixed hub.
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Old 09-08-07, 08:03 AM   #17
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well, regardless of what your pretentious ass thinks, that's how they work. the point was that if the guy wants to ride fixed on the street and ride on the track, he's going to need a fixed-fixed hub to be totally safe, and telling him to just slap a cog on a freewheel side is dangerous and stupid, especially when he can still get whatever kind of wheel he wants.
Pretentious? That's pretty rich from a hardon like you.

I never told him to run a cog on a freewheel side...do you know how to read, or just run yer mouth? And if you think that being correct about the technical limits of my gear is being pretentious, then you don't know crap about bikes, fellah.

Freewheel threads are not the same as fixed threads. Do what you want, but seeing as how you're so concerned with "safety," seems like you'd be a little more careful about spreading misinformation to someone asking advice.
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Old 09-08-07, 08:08 AM   #18
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Thanks for the responses, my only issue is very limited funds, which is why I'm looking at one bike. And by riding around I also mean training on the road with the single speed, if that factors in at all.

Any other bike suggestions?
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Old 09-08-07, 08:27 AM   #19
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The best "bang-for-the-buck" new bike seems to be the Mercier Kilo TT. Lots of guys have 'em, and lots seem to like 'em. Do a search, 'coz there are several lengthy threads about this bike. I think that supplies are limited right now, but more should be coming in.

Other than that, eBay or craigslist for a possible bargain, but you should be careful if you don't know much about fixed-gear bikes.
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Old 09-08-07, 09:52 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by fischer, max View Post
well, regardless of what your pretentious ass thinks, that's how they work. the point was that if the guy wants to ride fixed on the street and ride on the track, he's going to need a fixed-fixed hub to be totally safe, and telling him to just slap a cog on a freewheel side is dangerous and stupid, especially when he can still get whatever kind of wheel he wants.
regardless of what your clueless ass thinks you simply don't need a lockring on the track and even the SB article you quoted didn't use the term as restrictively as you propose. STFU.


TO get back to the OPs original question what bike will work for you depends a lot on what track your going to be riding on. If it's steep and you plan on sprinting you need a high bb. If not and you're only racing a few times a year you can get away with pretty much anything.

I think the pista is a great intro track bike but it's not as well suited for normal use as the mercier/fuji. The madison is probably a good option too and the last thing you should be worrying about is weight.
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Old 09-08-07, 10:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by fischer, max View Post
goddammit, a flip-flop hub is exactly what you would NOT want for that application. flip-flop means fixed/free. FIXED/FIXED is what EVERYONE should want, regardless of how many cogs or freewheels they want, because YOU CAN RUN EITHER ONE ON EITHER SIDE. for chrissakes, at least put a modicum of effort into the misinformed advice you're throwing around.
You should just calm down there, dingleberry. Nobody but you said anything about freewheels. I haven't even read all your posts in this thread yet, but I can tell by the sheer volume of them that you are flailing in defense of your own misinformed rant.
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Old 09-08-07, 10:48 AM   #22
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How much money do you have? I'd drop 7-800 on a used Felt to race on, and 3-400 on a used khs/pista for the street.
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Old 09-08-07, 10:53 AM   #23
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Thanks for the responses, my only issue is very limited funds, which is why I'm looking at one bike. And by riding around I also mean training on the road with the single speed, if that factors in at all.

Any other bike suggestions?

Didn't see this. I'd get an IRO and a spare cog/sprocket set.
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Old 09-08-07, 11:47 AM   #24
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nope, a quick look at your profile was all i needed.
Yeah, well, if you equate education with pretentiousness, then your outrageous stupidity isn't surprising. You're a real champion of the common man...be sure you don't accidentally get him killed.
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Old 09-08-07, 05:30 PM   #25
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i rest my case.
What case, Sherlock? About the only thing you've demonstrated is your ignorance. Well done.
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