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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 09-09-07, 08:57 PM   #1
Fugazi Dave
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Quality double strap group buy

This thread is for the pursuit of a group buy of Toshi straps. Go for it.

Note that I am no longer involved with this.
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Last edited by Fugazi Dave; 09-10-07 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 09-09-07, 09:02 PM   #2
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Depending on how much difference there is in price, I would prefer Tashis, however I would definitely still be in for an MKS group buy.
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Old 09-09-07, 09:12 PM   #3
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if there's not much difference in price, go toshi. but if the mks is a lot cheaper do that.

and i'm in.
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Old 09-09-07, 09:23 PM   #4
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i'd consider it, for sure
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Old 09-09-07, 09:25 PM   #5
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Yep. I'm in. Put the Toshi vs. MKS to a vote when you've got the prices.
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Old 09-09-07, 09:27 PM   #6
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This is perfect, Im down for a few sets...
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Old 09-09-07, 09:28 PM   #7
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Toshi.
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I explained that he could never pay me enough cash for the amount of work I had put into that bike and the only way to compensate me for it was to ride the hell out of it.
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Old 09-09-07, 09:30 PM   #8
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If the price is right, I'd be curious to try some good double-straps.
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Old 09-09-07, 09:38 PM   #9
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If the price is right, I'd be curious to try some good double-straps.
me too!
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Old 09-09-07, 09:48 PM   #10
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let me know..
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Old 09-09-07, 09:51 PM   #11
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Hot dwag!!
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Old 09-09-07, 09:51 PM   #12
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Thank you Fugazi Dave for making a new thread, this should make things more concise. As the person who originally brought up this idea for a group buy, here is my $00.02. I'd prefer the Toshi singles vs the regular MKS Alpha singles. I just think the Toshi strap is made better for NYC fixed gear riding. Toshi straps also are designed to work with strap buttons, which are key for urban riding, and I've never seen buttons made for the MKS Alpha straps. AFAIC, the Toshi singles are the best strap for urban fixed gear riding if you are going to properly used toe straps, and by that I mean tightening them and un-tightening them repeatedly throughout the day. Toe straps were never designed to be left at a single setting forever as used as a sort of Powergrips arrangement. I'm not going to judge anyone who uses straps this way, to each their own, but my own personal interests are based on using toe straps as they were intended to be used. If used that way, the Toshi singles are hard to beat based on the milage I've put on them this week and reports of them holding up to extended wear. The MKS buckles just don't seem to have as much flex (as opposed to stretch, which I'm not referring to) built into them. This could possibly create a hotspot when wearing street shoes because they might not wrap around your foot as well.

I'd recommend that anyone interested in the double straps who uses toe straps the way they were designed to be intended to be used, and knows how to tighten and un-tighten straps during their ride, try a quality pair of singles (like Toshis) before buying a pair of doubles. Not saying I wouldn't myself condider a pair of doubles for touring, club rides, centuries, etc, but I don't think they are a great solution for NYC riding when compared directly to their single strap counterparts.

I think this member put things very well in his post:
all I hear is Toshi, Toshi, Toshi...

Last edited by acoldspoon; 09-09-07 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 09-09-07, 11:17 PM   #13
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i'd be in for some nice doubles, toshi or MKS.
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Old 09-09-07, 11:43 PM   #14
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toshi single gb for me please.
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Old 09-09-07, 11:50 PM   #15
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i'd be in for toshi doubles if its in good $$
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Old 09-10-07, 12:01 AM   #16
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We probably need to settle on either singles or doubles...and I get the feeling that a lot of people (including me) really aren't interested in a big group buy for singles. Doubles were sort of the point from the beginning, weren't they?
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Old 09-10-07, 12:02 AM   #17
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I always thought that because there was a buckle for the straps to be tucked into, that tucking them was how they were intended to be used...and that I was using them wrong for the sake of convenience by keeping them untucked (and perhaps wearing them out more quickly)...
acoldspoon, you're saying this isn't the case?
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Old 09-10-07, 12:32 AM   #18
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Toshi for sure. I'm down, I've been meaning to get me a pair, but $100 is a bit pricey, but if a group buy would bring that down by a couple bucks, I'm in.
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Old 09-10-07, 12:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugazi Dave View Post
Doubles were sort of the point from the beginning, weren't they?
The point of the other thread or the point of the group buy? I had the idea to do a group buy, and that wasn't my point.
You can refer to this post here to see where I first mentioned the idea to do a group buy:
all I hear is Toshi, Toshi, Toshi...

It sounds like you just really want some MKS doubles, which is fine. Power to you. But now you seem like you are also and trying to derail my intent for this group buy, which is less than cool. In fact, you are sugesting that we not even make available the thing I suggested we buy.

I'd have zero problems with a group buy for Toshi singles and doubles, but lets not try to make it sound like this group buy thing was either your idea, the OP's idea from the other thread, or like the idea behind the group buy was to get MKS straps or doubles. I think a group buy for Toshi singles would be a great idea. I think a group buy for Toshi singles and doubles would be a great idea. The intent I originally had though was not a group buy for only doubles or for another brand.

It is also worth remembering that while Toshi straps are reasonably long and will fit a wide foot well, that some other Japanese track straps are not as long. Anything even a little shorter than the Toshi straps are going to pose a problem for some members of this board who may have large wide feet which is way more typical of American men than of Japanese men. As this board has a majority of American members, that is an important detail to look at when deciding on straps. I have double e wide feet, so I mention this from personal experience.

And just to reiterate from the other thread, I have used doubles myself. I find they are great when used for their intended purpose. I found that for hill climbs and TT's they were the cat's PJ's. But that was when I was using them with leather or nylon soled cycling shoes with cleats and had the straps tightened till my feet were completely locked in. In situations where I was going to have to seriously hammer and releasing from a pedal was a risk, doubles made sense. I just don't personally think they are all that great for riding in NYC. YMMV.

If anybody wants to try to change my mind by loaning me a pair of Toshi doubles so I can compare them directly to Toshi singles, I'll give you my updated opinion, though it very well may not change.

The reality is that doubles look cooler to some people, look more "track" to some people, and I've been told might work better for some people that prefer to ride with loose straps (though I can't understand why one would chose to do so all the time). As these things don't really effect me, it was never my intent to own a pair for NYC riding.

Heck, they'd probably be stolen off my bike in no time flat anyway, and would make my bike stand out to thieves that much more. I would consider a pair of doubles for when I ride centuries though, just so I can see how they compare in this respect to singles or clipless.

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Originally Posted by teiaperigosa View Post
I always thought that because there was a buckle for the straps to be tucked into, that tucking them was how they were intended to be used...and that I was using them wrong for the sake of convenience by keeping them untucked (and perhaps wearing them out more quickly)...
acoldspoon, you're saying this isn't the case?
Toe straps have traditionally been used both ways by cyclists. That's why toe strap companies have made toe strap end buttons. Which one uses, often depends on how often the straps need to be tightened and un-tightened. Twenty five or so years ago when clipless was still a new thing, it broke down sort of like this. In road racing (stage, TT's, points, crits, etc.), we tended to tuck into the buckles. Granted there were exceptions to the rules, like certain short contests where immediate pack placement and immediate sprinting from the start meant buttons were more beneficial. My understanding is that most track cyclists have also preferred to tuck into the buckle too. This has a lot to do with the ability to track stand, use railings, and have bikes held pre-race. Bike touring, at least in the 1980's was pretty split with button and buckle tucking. I tended to prefer buttons for touring, but many other people took the tucking in route. For urban riding, like in NYC, and even congested suburban riding, the vast majority of riders before clipless (who were serious cyclists) either used buttons or didn't, but rarely ever tucked into the buckle. Tucking into the buckles while constantly tightening and un-tightening, as one does in urban riding with stop and go traffic and intersections, is a serious PITA that slows you down and can lead to accidents caused by an avoidable distraction.

Last edited by acoldspoon; 09-10-07 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 09-10-07, 01:01 AM   #20
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how much could ordering in bulk from japan (everything here is expensive, and people don't really seem to bargain much) save, after paying for shipping and customs? would it really be worth the wait to save (what i'm guessing would be) a small amt. of money?

fwiw, i've found MKS stuff here to be more expensive or the same prices than most of my LBS(s?) in san diego. i'm going to guess toshi would be the same...
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Old 09-10-07, 01:02 AM   #21
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^ not being a smartass, just asking.

what would be the ideal discount amount people are looking for here?
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Old 09-10-07, 01:03 AM   #22
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the price I usually get is 100 for toshi doubles and 80 for mks fit alpha doubles
if you can beat the toshi price I am down for multiple pairs otherwise forget it
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Old 09-10-07, 01:09 AM   #23
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I have no idea if a saving could be arranged, I merely brought up the idea of investigating. Anyone kow what wholesale pricing is?
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Old 09-10-07, 01:36 AM   #24
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acoldspoon:

Actually, I have no intent to try to derail your original purpose, and I resent the implication. My basic point was that if we're going to get the numbers together to actually get a group buy off the ground, then we probably need to decide as a group to go after singles or doubles - trying to get both may result in getting volume pricing on neither. Most people seem interested in doubles. I dig MKS straps, but I'm totally open to Toshis as well. All I did was voice one personal preference. You seem to think I'm trying to get some kind of ****ing conspiracy off the ground. I never claimed it was my idea, insisted that we *not* buy single straps as a group, etc. In fact, I don't care if it was you or whoever else that first even mentioned the idea of a group buy on straps - it's beside the point entirely. People seemed interested in a group buy on Toshis and someone mentioned a new thread, so I started this. Accuse me of trying to further some ulterior, personal motive and this thing will lose my support altogether. I have connections enough for my own means, I was only trying to get this thing rolling for the group.
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Old 09-10-07, 07:14 AM   #25
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Okay so some folks on a fixed thread in San Fran did a toshi double strap group buy and this is what the prices were:
7-14 people: 90$ + tax + shipping
15-24 people: 80$ + tax + shipping
25 and up: 75$ +tax + shipping

Now if it is agreed that we all are in for a toshi double I will go ahead and contact the person who started that group buy to see who they ordered from.

From personal experience I've had both Toshi single and double. While the singles are very good, the doubles are even better. You don't have to strap down the doubles as much since you have two straps per foot and they will probably last longer too. It does make sense (to me) if you use doubles just because you get better power with the ride. I've heard that Toshi are better made for longevity too because the buckle goes through all three layers of the leather, while MKS only goes through 1 or 2 I think. So yeah decide what yall want but I'm all in for Toshi doubles cuz they are well worth it (to me).
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