Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-03-08, 10:58 PM   #1
parkerlewis
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
parkerlewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
New Keirin frame brand - what options do you want?

Hi guys. I am just about to start taking orders for a new hand-built frame company in Kansai, Japan, and before I finalise the options for custom frames, I wanted some feedback from you guys......basically what options do you want to see?
So far the options are roughly as follow....and please just add any options/suggestions to this thread. Thanks!

-Frames - Keirin geometry/Keirin geometry w/toe clip clearance/Pursuit style with 650 fork.
- Seat tube and top tube length.
-Forks - 650c/700c, sloping crown w/aero tubes, flat crown w/round tubes. 35mm offset.

-High or Low BB - custom

-Fastback or Classic style seat stay joint.

-Any colour you can think of, including options of 2 or 3 colour, either masked or faded.

-Metal flake, in either rainbow, silver, gold, blue, red, green, and in both large or small sizes.

-Different colour sticker kits to suit the paint job, including prism, chrome silver, chrome gold. No stickers is another option.

-All chrome frames *no paint*....chrome/stickers/clear.

-Only 27.2 seat tube size.

-Hatta NJS Swan headset, no other options.

-Option of Hatta R9400 NJS or Sugino 75 BB.....I will also offer a Dura Ace octalink NJS option.

-Drilled front, drilled rear, no drillings, or both drilled for brakes.

-Tange no.1, Kaisei 4130, Kaisei 8630R, Columbus Spirit Keirin options. (i believe some Reynolds is available too, but not 100% sure)
parkerlewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 11:04 PM   #2
frankstoneline
stay free.
 
frankstoneline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Bikes: EAI Bare Knuckle, 1980's Ross Signature 292s 12 speed
Posts: 1,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
whats the price looking like on these?
those options look sweet.
frankstoneline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 11:06 PM   #3
andre nickatina
not actually Nickatina
 
andre nickatina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: OR
Bikes:
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Kaisei 8630 feels super nice... 11.4 approved too.

Then again, Columbus Spirit is supposed to be a treat too.
andre nickatina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 11:09 PM   #4
kmart
Blue Light Special
 
kmart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bay Area, Sunny Cali
Bikes: '05 Felt F55, Schwinn Prologue road bike, '86 Centurion DS Iron Man, Sette Flite AM MTB
Posts: 1,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The options look good to me (I'm not too picky), but some questions:
Who's making the frames?
How much are they?
Is this a group buy, as in lower-than-usual pricing, etc?
How many frames are you making and what's the wait time to get one?
kmart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 11:14 PM   #5
parkerlewis
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
parkerlewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They will be pretty expensive. The new brand is OCEAN, which is the old VIVALO head frame builder, minus 3 of his old staff, and plus 2 new staff. Looking to get NJS cert in 3 years time. I am looking forward to finishing the website in the coming weeks, which will include an in depth factory tour photo journal.
I expect $940 retail price, with 8630 $95 upcharge, Spirit Keirin Columbus $195 upcharge.
For a Japanese Keirin frame builder, the price is actually very good, considering Bridgestone and Panasonic (2 of the cheapest builders in Japan) charge between 125000 and 14000YEN for a custom frame. I am not referring to the retail POS frames, which at base price are not true custom frames.
I have just ordered my own frame, and 3 customer frames, so will have photos after the 2 week turnaround.....
parkerlewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 11:16 PM   #6
parkerlewis
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
parkerlewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For what it is worth, Samson is the most expensive frame in Japan, usually around 180000YEN, but often chrome under paint and columbus tubing is standard.
parkerlewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 11:20 PM   #7
frankstoneline
stay free.
 
frankstoneline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Bikes: EAI Bare Knuckle, 1980's Ross Signature 292s 12 speed
Posts: 1,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Possibility of a non custom "average guy" frame out of the operation?
frankstoneline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 11:21 PM   #8
parkerlewis
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
parkerlewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I guess a group buy could be organised, although I am not expecting a large amount of orders to come from outside of Japan, since I see that members on here are usually looking for pretty cheap options.
I get a lot of guys emailing me through my blog looking for frames (too many requests for me to fill) so these frames will be a good option, and give people an opportunity to have a frame custom built, in the same style that Keirin Pro Riders have.

KMART - I am not having these made as stock frames, but rather as custom order only. Turnaround should be about 2 weeks, plus shipping of 5 days with EMS courier from Osaka, Japan.
I may keep 2 or 3 frames in stock in popular sizes like 56/57cm but generally it will be all about the custom order experience.
parkerlewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 11:41 PM   #9
chase.
out of shape
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: va
Bikes:
Posts: 1,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i'm not in the market for a frame at this time, but here is my feedback:

- pursuit style sloping TT, but 700c wheels (like certain khs aero tracks)
- sloping fork crown, aero tubes (eg. 3rensho super record aero)
- colours/decals depend...
- drilled fork, undrilled bridge
- kaisei tubing with optional columbus spirit keirin

i think an all chrome frame would be nice, or a solid colour with chrome fork tips and stays. if i were ordering a custom frame, i would want a say in the design and placement of the decals— which might mean that a decal sheet were supplied with the frame and i'd put them on myself.
chase. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 11:45 PM   #10
parkerlewis
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
parkerlewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks CHASE....

Clear coat will go over decals, and it is not an easy process, so will usually be left to Kusaka San. An option will be to have the stickers supplied separately on a sheet, if a customer really wants that.

The options I listed on the first post of this thread are all definite custom options, I am just looking for additional suggested options.
Of the feedback list you typed above, all options are available, including sloping tube, with 700C wheels.....
parkerlewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 06:34 AM   #11
nateintokyo
Senior Member
 
nateintokyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Santa Barbara
Bikes: SE Quadrangle, '82 Venus NJS, '03 Bianchi Pista, '86 P'sonic Mt Cat, Fat City Yo Eddy '91 + '93, B'cuda A2E, '86 Trek Elance 400, '88 Centurion D.Scott Expert, '88 Fisher Mt Tam (and no longer with me: SE OM Flyer, Umezawa/B-stone/Samson NJS)
Posts: 1,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkerlewis View Post
They will be pretty expensive. [...]
I expect $940 retail price, with 8630 $95 upcharge, Spirit Keirin Columbus $195 upcharge.
Do you know what the spec differences are between the Ocean frames in the other thread (72,000 yen~ / $675) and the stock options you mentioned for these frames (100,000 yen / $940)?

The 'new' Vivalo frames were supposed bar-spinnable street trackers if I'm not mistaken. Besides the tubing options, do you think the other choices you mentioned for these will be included or extra?

The 'stock' Ocean frames seem to only be listed up to 570cm....
nateintokyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 11:08 AM   #12
J A Holman
Boooga BOO
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down Under
Bikes: Colnago for road, Fuji for track
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
no drilling

reallly, no drilling, if they can coin out for that bike they can get mountable brakes for off the track
J A Holman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 11:33 AM   #13
SSSasky
Mo' Senior
 
SSSasky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
Bikes: 1984 Norco Monterey SL (Ishwata 3X butted), matte black, 42-15 fixed
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Holman, no drilling is an option if you want it. Read the first post.

If I'm gonna shell out that kind of money, I should be able to get it drilled if I want.

Not saying I'm going to shell out the money ... just hypothetical.
SSSasky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 11:35 AM   #14
Fugazi Dave
Beausage is Beautiful
 
Fugazi Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Bikes: 2006 Langster, which I actually like.
Posts: 5,457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It wouldn't really fit the whole NJS thing, but a 1 1/8" threadless steerer sure would be nice...
Fugazi Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 12:30 PM   #15
deathhare
:jarckass:
 
deathhare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nashville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugazi Dave View Post
It wouldn't really fit the whole NJS thing, but a 1 1/8" threadless steerer sure would be nice...
-1
deathhare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 12:34 PM   #16
queerpunk
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,961
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugazi Dave View Post
It wouldn't really fit the whole NJS thing, but a 1 1/8" threadless steerer sure would be nice...
if the builder made the frames with a 1" headtube, then the buyer could have the option of a threaded or nonthreaded fork. that would satisfy several markets.

me, if i were buying a steel track bike, i'd want it threadless.
queerpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 02:05 PM   #17
Fugazi Dave
Beausage is Beautiful
 
Fugazi Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Bikes: 2006 Langster, which I actually like.
Posts: 5,457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathhare View Post
-1
Somehow I think we're coming at this from two different directions...

1 1/8" threadless is pretty much never going to happen with this kind of frame, but the threadless option at least would be nice.
Fugazi Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 02:09 PM   #18
deathhare
:jarckass:
 
deathhare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nashville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry. I guess i just dispise threadless so much. I love it for BMX but have never seen much use for it on my fixed gear road bike.
Not to mention threadless dont look classy.
As long as its an option and not what these all turn out to be, im fine.
I dont know about most of the people in this thread but im one of the people who are actually planning to buy one of these frames...so i do care what they end up being.
deathhare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 02:29 PM   #19
andre nickatina
not actually Nickatina
 
andre nickatina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: OR
Bikes:
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, threadless is better if you plan on riding on the track...

I think it just takes getting used to looking at. I used to think Pista Concepts, threadless stems and aero/disk wheels looked weird and unappealing. Now I appreciate them a little more.
andre nickatina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 02:32 PM   #20
deathhare
:jarckass:
 
deathhare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nashville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Theyre def a stiffer set up
I guess i just like the classic look of threaded stems.
The frame will be for my wife and itll be ridden only on the street.
deathhare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 09:20 PM   #21
parkerlewis
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
parkerlewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes DEATHHARE, these are Keirin style frames, so there is no chance of anything other than 1 inch threaded.
parkerlewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 09:23 PM   #22
parkerlewis
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
parkerlewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nate. I am sure that 72000 is impossible for Keirin hand built custom frame....can you point my towards that thread please?
They may have been run-out model Vivalo frames, when Kusaka had a bunch of frames left from Keirin pro who no longer needed them post NJS. He was going to close shop, since he had 31 years behind him in the Keirin game. Since talking with a new partner, a new staff member, and myself, the OCEAN brand was started.......I am not sure if that is what you are referring to....
parkerlewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 09:37 PM   #23
nateintokyo
Senior Member
 
nateintokyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Santa Barbara
Bikes: SE Quadrangle, '82 Venus NJS, '03 Bianchi Pista, '86 P'sonic Mt Cat, Fat City Yo Eddy '91 + '93, B'cuda A2E, '86 Trek Elance 400, '88 Centurion D.Scott Expert, '88 Fisher Mt Tam (and no longer with me: SE OM Flyer, Umezawa/B-stone/Samson NJS)
Posts: 1,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
hey--- i was talking about the 'track bikes in tokyo' thread. DH posted up this link (http://www.handcsports.com/acce_othe...ivalo_oder.htm) and another poster said he knew them.

sticker-wise, it's vivalo, but they are calling them 'city pista' and have set sizes, so it seems like something that was future-oriented. are they (ocean) going to have stock frames like this as well, or only the custom stuff you mentioned above?
nateintokyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-08, 09:44 PM   #24
jgarcia186
Deathhare FanBoi #8
 
jgarcia186's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ellensburg, Wa
Bikes: Univega Gran Record, Pinarello Treviso, Powerlite BMX, Schwinn Cuiser, Scwhinn Stingray.
Posts: 529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ive been looking into getting a funny bike recently and this seems like a pretty nice option. I know I will have to save a bit more but Id be into going for one of these frames.
jgarcia186 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-08, 12:47 AM   #25
parkerlewis
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
parkerlewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the link Nate. I just saw that last week, courtesy of DeathHare.
I talked to Kusaka and Yoh and they said they were the excess Keirin frames from late 07.....right now there is no plan to do a stock frame. OCEAN want to offer something special, so custom seemed to be the way to go. For stock frames Panasonic seem to have it locked down for price.
parkerlewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:10 AM.