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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 02-15-08, 01:54 PM   #1
sp00ki
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redishing a mavic ellipse: possible?

I'm attempting to reduce the wheel's chainline ~3mm or so. It doesn't look like this is possible, but then again i haven't attempted to take the hub apart to replace the hardware (spacer) with the necessary parts/spacers.
Additionally, i'm not sure how much play i have with the spokes.
Before i begin, does anyone know if this is possible on the mavic ellipse?
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Old 02-15-08, 01:59 PM   #2
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I don't know about the ellipse wheel, but redishing a wheel should be a last resort to fixing a minor error in chainline. A symmetrically dished wheel is always best, particularly for something with as few spokes as an Ellipse. Honestly, you are probably much better off using one of these...http://www.ebikestop.com/Items/004-cr1239? ...to move your BB over 2.5mm.
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Old 02-15-08, 02:10 PM   #3
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A spacer wouldn't help:

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Originally Posted by sp00ki View Post
I'm attempting to reduce the wheel's chainline ~3mm or so.
The decision to redish is, in a manner of speaking, a last resort. I can't come up with another solution, other than replacing my cranks/bottom bracket or buying a new wheel (no to both, incidentally).

Actually, now that i think about it, someonementioned something once (i think?) about flipping a cog so the teeth are closer to the center of the axle.
Is this doable? If so, what are my risks, and what else is involved?
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Old 02-15-08, 02:18 PM   #4
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uhhh.. get a new BB. WAYYYYY better than what you are trying to do.

are you running super expensive or rare that you cant do this?
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Old 02-15-08, 02:20 PM   #5
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A spacer wouldn't help:
use the bb spacer as a bb spacer.....
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Old 02-15-08, 02:26 PM   #6
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uhhh.. get a new BB. WAYYYYY better than what you are trying to do.

are you running super expensive or rare that you cant do this?
depends on your definition of rare/expensive..

165 sugino superbe pro to phil wood ti bb w/ alloy cups

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use the bb spacer as a bb spacer.....
trons, the item you linked to has this as the product description:
"Fit behind freewheel body to bring freewheel closer to the dropout and/or to improve chainline"
i don't see how the item pictured or the description would help my situation. I don't want the "freewheel" or cog closer to the dropout, i want it closer to the hub.
As for bb spacer, i couldn't begin to tell you why they'd call it that.

----------------

does anyone see anything wrong with flipping an eai superstar cog so the "drive side side" of the cog is facing the center of the hub? this would buy me a few mm. i don't see why this wouldn't work, but if you don't think it would, please advise.

Last edited by sp00ki; 02-15-08 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 02-15-08, 02:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00ki View Post
A spacer wouldn't help:
Dude..its a BB spacer. You can either use it to move your BB or freewheel/cog to the right. In this case, use it with the BB. Remove the BB and install it next to the right cup. It moves your ranks and chainring 2.5mm to the right.

Despite what the description says, its works for both and is intended to be used either way...I've used it both ways.

Never mind, it won't work with a Phil BB.

Last edited by mihlbach; 02-15-08 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 02-15-08, 02:37 PM   #8
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i thought that the philwood bottom brackets were adjustable...
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Old 02-15-08, 02:46 PM   #9
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they are, but three mm exceeds the allowable design (or at least the ammount of offset recommended by phil wood); the cups are alloy, so i don't want to push things.
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Old 02-15-08, 02:58 PM   #10
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in that case flip the cog
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Old 02-15-08, 03:08 PM   #11
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The only issue with flipping the cog would be that your chain touching the spokes. You should give it a try.

It sounds like there may be another issue if your crank/BB combo if putting your chainline under 42mm by 3 or so mm. Could be this be a jis/iso issue? Just a thought.
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Old 02-15-08, 03:09 PM   #12
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...or adjust the bb within 0.5mm of dead center.
(although i know how it nice it is to have things perfect)
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Old 02-15-08, 03:31 PM   #13
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i'm at work so i can't check for a few hours, but i think the chain has ample clearance. moving 3mm would be close, but if memory serves won't be an issue.

so trons/Cynical: flipping the cog (eai superstar, in this case) won't cause any technical issues (other than the chain rubbing the stay, which shouldn't be the case)?
if not, this may be the best solution. i don't know how much space is on the "other" side of the superstar cog, but i think it may be sufficient.
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Old 02-15-08, 05:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynikal View Post
The only issue with flipping the cog would be that your chain touching the spokes. You should give it a try.

It sounds like there may be another issue if your crank/BB combo if putting your chainline under 42mm by 3 or so mm. Could be this be a jis/iso issue? Just a thought.
The Ellipses have a 44mm chainline for Mavic's 110mm BB spindle.

A 110.5mm symmetric Phil Wood spindle would put the chainline in the right ballpark without anything as painful as redishing.
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Old 02-15-08, 06:10 PM   #15
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Spooki, correct me if I'm wrong here. Your problem is that the cranks have a chainline that is less than 42mm and you need to move the cog toward the center of the bike because you can't push the crank out any more?
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Old 02-15-08, 06:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Spooki, correct me if I'm wrong here. Your problem is that the cranks have a chainline that is less than 42mm and you need to move the cog toward the center of the bike because you can't push the crank out any more?
correcto!
the chainline in the back seems to be 45mm. the chainline in the front seems to be ~42mm (on the low side, can't seem to get an exact measurement).
it appears that flipping the cog will give me the offset i need to achieve this.
there doesn't seem to be any risk at first glance, but i'm not an experienced mechanic and would like to hear input before i decide to do so (again, eai superstar, if this makes any difference).

@ yonderboy: i'm looking to avoid spending money unless it comes down to it. if the reversed cog works this will be a non issue, so let's see what happens there.

*ed: now that i look at it, it appears that flipping the cog would offset things too much.
i'm going to borrow my friend's caliper and see if i can't sort this out before making any decisions...
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Old 02-15-08, 07:01 PM   #17
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If it offests a little too much you should be able to use the adjustment in the BB to compensate.
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Old 02-15-08, 07:03 PM   #18
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that's what i'm thinking. as this thread progressed, i realized that i had more options than i originally realized by using multiple "tweaks" in conjunction.
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Old 02-15-08, 07:05 PM   #19
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Cool. Report back on the outcome. I'm curious.
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Old 02-15-08, 07:20 PM   #20
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One other option is to have Phil machine you the correct length BB spindle.
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Old 02-15-08, 09:04 PM   #21
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my bike is silent with my ellipse. no alterations
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Old 02-15-08, 09:11 PM   #22
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So why is it not possible to get a 3mm longer bb again...?
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Old 02-15-08, 11:41 PM   #23
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That's what I'm wondering. If you're running a $400+ drivetrain, you could at least buy the proper BB length. Especially if the BB costs $125 alone.
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Old 02-16-08, 12:38 PM   #24
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He asked for options with the parts curently has and his questions were answered. Why are you still asking about this?
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Old 02-16-08, 11:19 PM   #25
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flip the cog over,but use a BB spacer between cog and hub to get the chainline right. install lockring...tada.
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