Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-07-08, 11:26 PM   #1
singurlifeman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
are the aeroheads and iro hubs worth it?

im looking to upgrade from the stock wheels and hubs that came on my kilo and i really dont want to pay an arm and a leg. i dont care about them being crazy colors or any of that crap, i just want something better than i have now. is there something else out there thats more cost efficient?
singurlifeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-08, 11:32 PM   #2
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Posts: 28,306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Define "better". If you're not having problems with your current wheelset then leave it alone. Otherwise you're just burning money.
operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-08, 11:41 PM   #3
singurlifeman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i dunno, i just dont get a very safe feeling from them. there are lots of really huge potholes on my usual route to and from school and im terribly afraid that im gonna hit one someday and my wheel is just gonna collapse. is that unreasonable?
singurlifeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-08, 11:47 PM   #4
sp00ki
partly metal, partly real
 
sp00ki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Philadelphia.
Bikes: Hummer H2
Posts: 3,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
kinda, yeah. though in an environment like what you described, a stronger wheel might require less frequent truing, which isn't frivolous imo.
sp00ki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-08, 11:51 PM   #5
MrCjolsen
Senior Member
 
MrCjolsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Davis CA
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check, '85 Giant road bike (unrecogizable fixed-gear conversion
Posts: 3,957
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
What do you have now? I have a pair of Velocity Aero rims (their cheapest). They stay nice and true all the time. Not real wild about the braking surface. I have about 2k miles on that wheelset.

On my other bike, I have Mavic Open Sports laced to a Dimension hub. So far so good with that wheel as well.

Finally, my third (semi-retired) bike has an Alex DC19 rim that's bombproof. I probably have around 2k on that wheel as well.

Basically, I only buy cheap stuff. And it all works fine for me.

And potholes will kill any wheel if they are big enough.
MrCjolsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-08, 11:53 PM   #6
singurlifeman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i just feel like what came stock is something that really should be swapped out sooner or later. also, i feel like im constantly getting flats but im not sure if its because of a pinch from the rim or if its just because the tires i have on now blow goats for quarters.

i just want to improve my ride so i feel more comfortable riding and stop feeling like i have to baby it when im out.
singurlifeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-08, 11:55 PM   #7
MrCjolsen
Senior Member
 
MrCjolsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Davis CA
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check, '85 Giant road bike (unrecogizable fixed-gear conversion
Posts: 3,957
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
I need to know what it is? What did it come stock on? For example, the Alex DC19 wheelset that comes on the Raliegh Rush Hour is pretty damn strong in my opinion.
MrCjolsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-08, 11:56 PM   #8
singurlifeman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
36H Aluminum Aero Section Track DoubleWall, is what the bikes direct site says.
singurlifeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 12:06 AM   #9
MrCjolsen
Senior Member
 
MrCjolsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Davis CA
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check, '85 Giant road bike (unrecogizable fixed-gear conversion
Posts: 3,957
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Sorry, I didn't look at your original post close enough. A 36h track wheel is going to be @#$% strong. If strength is your concern, don't spend money unless something breaks or bends. Just keep an eye on your spoke tension and learn how to true your wheels and keep them that way.

Any pothole so big that it makes your wheel collapse will cause you to crash before that happens, so don't worry. For the most part, cheap wheels don't just implode suddenly. What happens is that they keep going out of true and then spokes start breaking. If that's not happening, just keep the wheels.
MrCjolsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 12:11 AM   #10
singurlifeman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thanks a lot. i think im just going to order some 25 or 28mm ultragators to replace the bull**** nylon kenda tires that came stock.

how do i check spoke tension? is there a thread in the DIY thread?
singurlifeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 01:06 AM   #11
Enthusiast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eugene, OR
Bikes:
Posts: 684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by singurlifeman View Post
thanks a lot. i think im just going to order some 25 or 28mm ultragators to replace the bull**** nylon kenda tires that came stock.

how do i check spoke tension? is there a thread in the DIY thread?
Search the Bike Mechanics subforum. There are hundreds of threads about spoke tension and truing wheels in there. Or head to Sheldon Brown's or Park Tools' websites. In a nutshell: If your spokes aren't tensioned enough (you can wiggle them around with your fingers) or evenly, bad things are more likely to happen to your wheel like warping and spoke breakage. Plus the wheel will feel "unsteady", which seems to be your problem.

As for frequent flats, check the tube and tire to see what keeps poking holes in your tube. It could be a too long spoke, it could be a misapplied rimstrip, it could be your crap tires getting cut up by road stuff, it could be you dont have the tires inflated to the max on their sidewall, it could be a defective tube, it could be debris or rubbing between the tube and tire, it could be a misapplied patch, it could be a loose or broken valve. Until you do some analysis of your problem, I can't tell you a solution.

Better tires will help both ride quality and add resistance to puncture. I think good tires are one of the first thing that should be upgraded on a stock bike, definitely not wheels.

Your stock wheels sound very strong. A 36h deep section double wall rim is almost the best you can do strength wise. Pricier rims will have a more efficient use of material but that normally just means they are lighter, not really stronger. If you still feel shaky on the bike check the entire bike for anything loose that might make it feel squirrelly. Whenever I have a loose headset, hub, or bottom bracket I immediately feel less confident on the bike.

Wow, this post turned out longer than I thought. Keep what you got, keep it in good working order, and ride the hell out of it.
Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 01:28 AM   #12
singurlifeman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
nothing seems shakey, ive just gotten a few flats from almost nothing that seem to have come out of thin air.

i guess this post is kind of misdirected, but really helpful none the less. my lbs is closed for the winter and i kind of feel like they're a bunch of idiots in there anyway, so i dont really have a trustworthy source.
singurlifeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 02:07 AM   #13
westokyo
どうでもいいよ
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Tokyo Japan
Bikes:
Posts: 238
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by singurlifeman View Post
my lbs is closed for the winter
Where are you?
westokyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 02:16 AM   #14
frankstoneline
stay free.
 
frankstoneline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Bikes: EAI Bare Knuckle, 1980's Ross Signature 292s 12 speed
Posts: 1,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by singurlifeman View Post
i just feel like what came stock is something that really should be swapped out sooner or later. also, i feel like im constantly getting flats but im not sure if its because of a pinch from the rim or if its just because the tires i have on now blow goats for quarters.

i just want to improve my ride so i feel more comfortable riding and stop feeling like i have to baby it when im out.
Think of it this way, you have (nearly) as much chance of taco-ing a top of the line rim/hub setup as you do an entry level wheelset, given that they are both laced comparably and have the same spoke counts. Now are you going to baby a set of open pros to dura ace's that cost you 350ish less than the stock wheelset? I would rather beat the hell out of a cheap wheelset and have a good time, than beat the hell out of a really nice wheelset, having an equally good time. Riding on roads you wont feel a difference, you'll feel a difference when you ride on a track maybe, but honestly, its a question of "do I want/need to spend those dollars?"
frankstoneline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 02:22 AM   #15
zelah
Banned
 
zelah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Portland
Bikes: Mercier Kilo TT
Posts: 2,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by westokyo View Post
Where are you?
i lol'd
zelah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 04:46 AM   #16
nateintokyo
Senior Member
 
nateintokyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Santa Barbara
Bikes: SE Quadrangle, '82 Venus NJS, '03 Bianchi Pista, '86 P'sonic Mt Cat, Fat City Yo Eddy '91 + '93, B'cuda A2E, '86 Trek Elance 400, '88 Centurion D.Scott Expert, '88 Fisher Mt Tam (and no longer with me: SE OM Flyer, Umezawa/B-stone/Samson NJS)
Posts: 1,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
getting good tires will make a much bigger difference
nateintokyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 07:22 AM   #17
mander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Van BC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Singurrlife, the wheels you have now could definitely stand an upgrade later on, but wear them out first. They will do a completely fine job of getting you around safely; they just might not stay true as long as a nicer wheelset, the rim surfaces, spokes and bearings may not last as long and they might not score as many weight weenie points. On any wheelset, cheap or expensive, you stay safe by keeping an eye on the areas around the spoke nipples for cracks, and by monitoring how the rim surfaces wear from braking. Your lbs wrench can tell you when your rim wear is getting a little sketchy, and at that point you get a new rim and spokes or just a new wheel. Besides that there's routine maintenance---wheel truing and repacking or replacing bearings. Learn to do that and just about any wheelset will work acceptably for you.

Like other posters say, getting good flat resistant tires like gatorskins, armadillos or hard cases is a much more cost efficient way to improve a cheap bike than getting a new wheelset. They will cost $60-80 for the set but it's money well spent. The reduction in flats over cheap oem road tires is really dramatic.

Last edited by mander; 03-08-08 at 07:32 AM.
mander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 08:05 AM   #18
bonechilling
Run What 'Ya Brung
 
bonechilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 5,694
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by singurlifeman View Post
thanks a lot. i think im just going to order some 25 or 28mm ultragators to replace the bull**** nylon kenda tires that came stock.

how do i check spoke tension? is there a thread in the DIY thread?
You'll definitely benefit more from a good tire upgrade than from an upgrade to a more expensive wheel. As others have said, either check the spoke tension yourself, or take them to a shop and have them trued.

I've seen countless complaints about the Kilo TT wheels, but I have to wonder, given the typical Kilo buyer (new riders) how many people just rode them out-of-the-box without ever checking them out. I think this likely account for more instances of failure than anything having to do with their lack of quality.

Last edited by bonechilling; 03-08-08 at 09:58 AM.
bonechilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 09:50 AM   #19
MrCjolsen
Senior Member
 
MrCjolsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Davis CA
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check, '85 Giant road bike (unrecogizable fixed-gear conversion
Posts: 3,957
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Even so, a 36 spoke track wheel is going to be almost idiot proof. I got a wheelset for $100. It was one of those cheap Dimension hubs laced to a Velocity Aero rim.

I just put it on my bike and rode the crap out of it. After a while, I noticed that one or two of the spokes had completely de-tensioned. You could turn the nipple without a spoke wrench. However, the wheel had barely gone out of true. I just tightened the loose spoke, and gave the rest of the spokes a quarter of a turn, trued the wheel, and rode another 1000 miles without even thinking about it.

This was on a commuter bike where I often carry a heavy load on he rear rack. Oh, and I weigh over 200 pounds. And I ride over ugly railroad tracks and on crappy roads at least once a day.

Eventually, after wasting the threads on one side with an improperly installed cheap stamped steel cog, I decided to replace the hub. So I got a Godspeed hub. They are the same as Dimension, IRO and maybe Formula. The cliche "They're all made in the same factory in China" does indeed apply to many of the track hubs currently on the market. But in my opinion, it's a damn good hub for $49.

I took the wheel apart and rebuilt it one morning. It was my first wheelbuild that I would actually ride. I re-used the same spokes (not the most recommended procedure).

After 500 miles, it has stayed true as the day I built it.

One of the big benefits of SSFG is that you get a much stronger wheel than on a geared road bike. I was always popping spokes on my cheap road wheels. But I've abused the hell out of my cheap track wheels and had very few problems.
MrCjolsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 10:20 AM   #20
thenewblk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i just bought new wheels to replace my stock wheels. they are not as light as i could have gone. and they were way over budget. and my stock wheels are doing great. but i saw them and had to have them. for now they sit in my living room and bring me joy.
thenewblk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 10:34 AM   #21
Longleaf
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by singurlifeman View Post
im looking to upgrade from the stock wheels and hubs that came on my kilo and i really dont want to pay an arm and a leg. i dont care about them being crazy colors or any of that crap, i just want something better than i have now. is there something else out there thats more cost efficient?
How much are the Formula/Aeroheads you're talking about? Do they have straight gauge or double butted spokes?
Longleaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 10:44 AM   #22
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Posts: 28,306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewblk View Post
i just bought new wheels to replace my stock wheels. they are not as light as i could have gone. and they were way over budget. and my stock wheels are doing great. but i saw them and had to have them. for now they sit in my living room and bring me joy.
Weight is one of the most overrated aspects about a wheelset. Aerodynamics is much, much more important. But then again for 99.9% of this forum, the NJS stamp is most important.
operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 10:53 AM   #23
blickblocks
.
 
blickblocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 3,861
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonechilling View Post
I've seen countless complaints about the Kilo TT wheels, but I have to wonder, given the typical Kilo buyer (new riders) how many people just rode them out-of-the-box without ever checking them out. I think this likely account for more instances of failure than anything having to do with their lack of quality.
I agree.
blickblocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 10:56 AM   #24
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Posts: 28,306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCjolsen View Post
Even so, a 36 spoke track wheel is going to be almost idiot proof. I got a wheelset for $100. It was one of those cheap Dimension hubs laced to a Velocity Aero rim.

I just put it on my bike and rode the crap out of it. After a while, I noticed that one or two of the spokes had completely de-tensioned. You could turn the nipple without a spoke wrench. However, the wheel had barely gone out of true.
Well I wouldn't exactly call dentesioned spokes on a wheel "idiot proof". It means is that the original wheel wasn't

1) tensioned properly
2) stress relieved

e.g wheels that were factory built that nobody ever checked, which is the majority of wheelsets out there
operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-08, 11:03 AM   #25
Longleaf
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
Weight is one of the most overrated aspects about a wheelset. Aerodynamics is much, much more important. But then again for 99.9% of this forum, the NJS stamp is most important.
Aerodynamic wheels are not important outside of competitive riding.

Have you looked at wind tunnel testing of both a bike and rider and bike with aero vs. non aero wheels? Until you hit and hold speeds that most of us never ever achive, aerodynamic wheels simply don't matter. And even then the difference is so small it only matters in competition.

With wattage output 250W aero wheels offer speed increase of .5%. That a a speed increase of .005 for those who prefer decimals.
Longleaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:24 PM.