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  1. #1
    Senior Member TimArchy's Avatar
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    Contest: Design a Cog Removal Tool

    My recent accident left me with a totaled frame, broken wheels and a bent crank. The only thing I can save is the Phil hub I had on the rear. The rim is destroyed, but detailed inspection after unlacing the hub shows no visible damage (cracks, bends, ovalized spoke holes, etc...). The front hub had a broken axle and broken flange. But I believe what saved the rear was that it recieved only radial forces (from the truck hitting it directly from behind), while the front recieved lateral force when the wheel turned perpindicular to the travel of the bike.

    The contest is to design a tool or tools that will allow me to remove lockrings and cogs from both sides of an unlaced hub. The hub is a 36 hole high flange double fixed. The cogs are 17t and 18t.

    If, upon my return to the US, I am able to:
    a)build the tool(s) and
    b)successfully use it(them) to remove both cogs
    I will buy you a burrito and beer at either Raging Burrito in Decatur GA or El Myr in Atlanta GA. Your Choice!!

    If you build the tool yourself and mail it to me I'll buy you two beers.

    Deadline: whenever you get around to it.

    Get cracking. Good luck!


    Vegetarian burritos only
    PBR, Natural Light, Coors and Steel Reserve are crap and therefore do not qualify as "beer"
    Any beer costing over $5 a glass qualifies as "Premium Beer" and the winner must pay the difference.
    Winner pays all gratuities
    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Frank
    I will derive power from their cries of despair. My crank a speedy dervish, spinning and spinning through the darkest night that anyone with the audacity to try and suck my wheel will ever see...

  2. #2
    tarck bike.com exile 666pack's Avatar
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    why not just stick the hub between two blocks of wood in a bench vice?
    i've heard that works.

  3. #3
    %#&*#%>?% Build your own's Avatar
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    You could use a adjustable oilfilterwrench around the hubbody and then use spanner/whip to remove cog and lockring

  4. #4
    liar JACQU3S's Avatar
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    Putting the hub in a vise might destroy it. There was someone on here talking about how the LBS had wrecked his hub by puting the nds flange in a vise and trying to whip a cog off. The result was it "twisting" at the middle. Needless tu say that hubs are not meant to take that kind of torsion and that many have really light mid-sections. The only safe way to go is to lace every second spoke of the drive-side flange (ie 8 spokes on 32h) to a rim and then whip it off. (you'll have to do this on both sides since it's a flip-hop)
    "once you go tarck, you never go barck"

  5. #5
    Electrical Hazard
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    you dont have to lace it to a rim. I just fill 1/3 of the driveside flange with old spokes.. hang them all down the same way, and clamp THE SPOKES in a vice. Since the spokes are old, you can clamp down really tight. This holds the hub well enough that you can use a whip on it.

  6. #6
    Worst mechanic ever Iser@n's Avatar
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    Been playing around with Google sKetchup for half an hour:



    The front one is easy to make from an old chain whip. The belt can be made from a lot af materials, but I think a leather belt will be less likely to slip. (and the wider the belt, the better) If you pull the belt (on the front one) at the end, so it is tight, you can use the 'leverfunction' to make it really tight. It kind of works like an oilwrench or the custom 'one chain' chainwhip that passed by a few months ago.
    The harder you pull the lockring remover or chain whip, and the 'grabbingwrench (tm)' the tighter it will be.

    The one on the back give you a very good grip, but i don't know what it will do to your hub.



    By the way, how's your back? And the money for your bike?
    Loves roadbikes

  7. #7
    partly metal, partly real sp00ki's Avatar
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    if you're definitely saving the rear hub, why not just re-lace it to what you want, then remove the cog/ring the normal way?
    Quote Originally Posted by bonechilling View Post
    Road [racing] is one of the only sports where adult men can compete in a non-scholastic setting, so inevitably 8/10 racers are fiercely-competitive nobodies. It's fun as hell, but it's also the foremost refuge of defeated and aging jocks, turned middle-management types.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mattface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iser@n View Post
    Been playing around with Google sKetchup for half an hour:



    The front one is easy to make from an old chain whip. The belt can be made from a lot af materials, but I think a leather belt will be less likely to slip. (and the wider the belt, the better) If you pull the belt (on the front one) at the end, so it is tight, you can use the 'leverfunction' to make it really tight. It kind of works like an oilwrench or the custom 'one chain' chainwhip that passed by a few months ago.
    The harder you pull the lockring remover or chain whip, and the 'grabbingwrench (tm)' the tighter it will be.
    That's called a strap wrench, and you can buy one in any hardware store in the plumbing section.


  9. #9
    jack of one or two trades Aeroplane's Avatar
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    Just half-heartedly lace 16 or so spare spokes of the same length to a spare rim. Rotafix/use lockring tool. Ta-da.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Irwin Goldstein
    Men should never ride bicycles. Riding should be banned and outlawed. It is
    the most irrational form of exercise I could ever bring to discussion.

  10. #10
    Worst mechanic ever Iser@n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattface View Post
    That's called a strap wrench, and you can buy one in any hardware store in the plumbing section.

    Hmmm, I thought it was a very good idea... Well, it was. But someone else's
    Loves roadbikes

  11. #11
    jjh
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    i think you owe sp00ki a couple of beers.don't try to re-invent the wheel - just have a new one built.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sp00ki View Post
    if you're definitely saving the rear hub, why not just re-lace it to what you want, then remove the cog/ring the normal way?
    winner. Best suggestion yet.

  13. #13
    Recreational Commuter
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimArchy View Post
    My recent accident left me with a totaled frame, broken wheels and a bent crank. The only thing I can save is the Phil hub I had on the rear. The rim is destroyed, but detailed inspection after unlacing the hub shows no visible damage (cracks, bends, ovalized spoke holes, etc...). The front hub had a broken axle and broken flange. But I believe what saved the rear was that it recieved only radial forces (from the truck hitting it directly from behind), while the front recieved lateral force when the wheel turned perpindicular to the travel of the bike.

    The contest is to design a tool or tools that will allow me to remove lockrings and cogs from both sides of an unlaced hub. The hub is a 36 hole high flange double fixed. The cogs are 17t and 18t.

    If, upon my return to the US, I am able to:
    a)build the tool(s) and
    b)successfully use it(them) to remove both cogs
    I will buy you a burrito and beer at either Raging Burrito in Decatur GA or El Myr in Atlanta GA. Your Choice!!

    If you build the tool yourself and mail it to me I'll buy you two beers.

    Deadline: whenever you get around to it.

    Get cracking. Good luck!


    Vegetarian burritos only
    PBR, Natural Light, Coors and Steel Reserve are crap and therefore do not qualify as "beer"
    Any beer costing over $5 a glass qualifies as "Premium Beer" and the winner must pay the difference.
    Winner pays all gratuities
    Items Required:
    1. Heavy work glove
    2. Standard lockring removal tool that has a head that will take a standard wrench.
    3. Socket to suit said tool.
    4. Air Impact Wrench and Compressor (borrowed, if you don't have one).

    Process:
    1. Work glove on one hand (ignore all Michael Jackson references)
    2. Lockring tool on lockring
    3. Socket on Air Impact Wrench
    4. Check to make sure Air Impact Wrench is going to turn in the correct direction
    5. Apply Socket to tool
    6. Check direction on Air Impact Wrench AGAIN
    7. Grasp hub/cog with work-gloved hand.
    8. Pull trigger for short burst.
    Riding the Ohio MS Central Ohio Challenge tour, July 12th.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sp00ki View Post
    if you're definitely saving the rear hub, why not just re-lace it to what you want, then remove the cog/ring the normal way?
    Cant relace with the cogs still on the hub been there

  15. #15
    Team Beer Cynikal's Avatar
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    You have 2 cogs on there? Try using a vise and blocks of wood on one of the cogs to get the other one off. Then you can partially lace the hub on one side and get the other off.
    I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC

  16. #16
    LF for the accentdeprived
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    Just lace it loosely to a rim with a dozen spokes. If you can't get your hands on a rim, go to a friendly shop. No need to start a tool manufacturing business in order to remove 1 cog.
    Quote Originally Posted by dutret
    Do you deny that you are clueless or do you just think that "moron" didn't need to be tacked on there?
    Bike on flickr and on FGG

  17. #17
    harrospokes! fetch's Avatar
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    sell it on Ebay. profit.

  18. #18
    Senior Member TimArchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fetch View Post
    sell it on Ebay. profit.
    Best idea yet.

    Phil Wood, High Flange, Double Fixed, Includes 2 Cogs!!!!!
    lightly used
    $210 value!
    Buy it Now: $150

    Clamping one cog between two blocks of wood to remove the other lockring and cog seems to be the way to go for one side. The only problems I see with this are that if you use a flat block of wood, ony a few teeth will contact the wood and the high forces on small areas will cause the teeth to tear through the wood. If you created a pocket in each piece of wood that the cog could slide into, it would allow more teeth to contact the wood and spread the force out.

    Another idea is to have pieces of chain suspended between two posts on a rig that can be clamped onto either side of the cog to hold it in the clamp. This could be used multiple times for any cog size.

    For the other side, I imagined a rig with two halves that would slide over the non-drive hub flange and then be clamped (not too tight) on a vise. Holes drilled in the rig would allow you to slide spokes through the rig and the hub to keep it from spinning. I think that this could be easily made with basic woodworking tools.

    I hadn't thought of partially lacing the wheel using the spoke holes I could reach (the cog blocks some holes so I can't fully relace the wheel). Does anyone have experience doing this? I may owe JACQU3S dinner for this one.

    I'm not worried about twisting the hub since it's a phil and super beefy (wouldn't try this on a campy) and if it does break, well, this is just a last ditch effort anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Frank
    I will derive power from their cries of despair. My crank a speedy dervish, spinning and spinning through the darkest night that anyone with the audacity to try and suck my wheel will ever see...

  19. #19
    Senior Member LurkasauresRex's Avatar
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    vice style grips + a dense urethane or a thick but hard/medium rubber buffer for a non-abrasive clamp onto the hub axle?

    Edit: no way this would work after some thought. Vice grips always are a last resort for anything. I'm backing the partial lace concept.

  20. #20
    THIS SPACE FOR RENT
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    The lockrings should come off with a chain whip and lock ring tool, that part is easy. Then put the hub in a frame, wrap the chain up like for rotafix, and use a chain whip on the other side, one cog or the other will go. Once one cog is off, lace that side to a junk rim, put it in a frame, and rotafix the other cog off. Pad the L seat and chain stays with cardboard as the rim is going to be rubbing against them pretty hard.
    "I don't buy new frames, it just encourages them."

    -T.G.

  21. #21
    liar JACQU3S's Avatar
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    !!!!!!!

    90% of what has been suggested here implies holding on to one end of the hub and twisting the cog/lockring off of the other. Doing so may result in the hub "twisting" at it's midst. Play it safe and throw half a dozen spokes on a junk rim.
    "once you go tarck, you never go barck"

  22. #22
    THIS SPACE FOR RENT
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACQU3S View Post
    !!!!!!!

    90% of what has been suggested here implies holding on to one end of the hub and twisting the cog/lockring off of the other. Doing so may result in the hub "twisting" at it's midst. Play it safe and throw half a dozen spokes on a junk rim.
    It's impossible to lace spokes to a hub with cogs on it, this is the whole point.

    I agree that there is a slight chance of torquing the hub, but it should be fine. The only other option is to buy a spool of 250 lb test spectra fishing line (power pro is one brand), lace it up with that using one continuous run of line instead of spokes, and go at it like that. Might work, will definitely be fun, will cost $30 or more.
    "I don't buy new frames, it just encourages them."

    -T.G.

  23. #23
    Senior Member TimArchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landgolier View Post
    It's impossible to lace spokes to a hub with cogs on it, this is the whole point.

    I agree that there is a slight chance of torquing the hub, but it should be fine. The only other option is to buy a spool of 250 lb test spectra fishing line (power pro is one brand), lace it up with that using one continuous run of line instead of spokes, and go at it like that. Might work, will definitely be fun, will cost $30 or more.
    I should be able to get a few spokes laced, even if I have to bend them. So far the plan is to clamp one cog between pieces of wood on a vise and remove the other cog. Then lace the non-drive side and a few spokes on the drive side to get the other cog off.

    I like the continuous run of fishing line, but here's the question: Considering that many times cogs require leverage bars to spin off (putting much more than 250 lb of rotational force into the hub), would the fishing line hold up? Or would the fact that there would be 36 connection points between the hub and the rim act like a pulley system and spread the force out?
    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Frank
    I will derive power from their cries of despair. My crank a speedy dervish, spinning and spinning through the darkest night that anyone with the audacity to try and suck my wheel will ever see...

  24. #24
    fix
    fix is offline
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    Here's an idea that might prevent stress on the hub body, but also avoids the cog issue. You'll have to use the wood block idea to get one of the cogs off, though.

    Take your 36 old spokes (or pieces of them) and thread them straight from the cogless side through to the cog side (poke the threaded end directly across, so that it makes a straight line).

    Once you do this, maybe you could thread a belt or strap over and around these spokes for a little more stability and strength. If you then grabbed this whole weird cylinder of spokes and belt in a vise, it would save the stress on the hub body, and also save the nasty twisting that would come from clamping just the cogless side.

    If this isn't enough leverage, or if it's unstable, I have a few more ideas.

    You could cross the spokes as they go through the hub (Hole 1 cogless side to hole 2 cog side, hole 1 cog side to hole 2 cogless side, etc.)

    You could cross the spokes and then wedge a few extra spokes, or a dowel or metal rod through the spokes on both sides next to the hub body. Kind of like a steering wheel, two of these going in an X shape might give you enough leverage to chainwhip that cog off if someone holds the dowels.

    I've never tried any of this, but my goal was to apply the stress to the hub flange in the direction it's actually supposed to go, instead of to the weaker hub body.
    soh-CAh-T-oa-meter 0 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ X ~ ~ pi

  25. #25
    never eaten better listen jodypolk's Avatar
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    it's a fixed fixed hub with 2 cogs...
    Quote Originally Posted by hotbike View Post
    I did hit a few cars with this bike, but the fairing never broke. It's stronger than a helmet.(They made incursions into the bike lane. I could've used my brakes, but hey, what are bumpers for?)

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