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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 04-18-08, 10:18 PM   #1
ridingsu
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Reynolds 520 vs 631

OK I've found a lot of information on the internet about CroMoly. Still, when it comes to track frames, which is the better, the 520, or the 631? Which is stronger, lighter, cheaper, etc?

My understanding is that the Kilo tt is 520, and the IRO is 631. Alot of factors albeit, which one is choice?
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Old 04-18-08, 10:33 PM   #2
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Even I have to admit a little searching would answer this right-quick...

631 is the higher grade tubing... 520 is the cheaper; do a google search and you can read to your heart's delight.
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Old 04-18-08, 10:57 PM   #3
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I thought the kilo was 4130? Yeah, bikesdirect says 4130 frame and fork...
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Old 04-18-08, 11:01 PM   #4
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same diff
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Old 04-18-08, 11:02 PM   #5
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is it? serious question. 4130 is same as 520?
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Old 04-18-08, 11:08 PM   #6
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i could be making it up but i'm pretty sure i'm not. it's either exactly the same or comparable
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Old 04-18-08, 11:09 PM   #7
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is it? serious question. 4130 is same as 520?

Yes. 520 is Reynolds branded 4130.
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Old 04-18-08, 11:09 PM   #8
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I have to confess I might've gotten confused by the Bikeisland frames... those are definitely 520.
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Old 04-18-08, 11:10 PM   #9
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i could be making it up but i'm pretty sure i'm not. it's either exactly the same or comparable
haha, yeah, you're right, I got unlazy and googled it and there happened to be a thread from the framebuilders forum. case closed.

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-253635.html
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Old 04-18-08, 11:12 PM   #10
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I have to confess I might've gotten confused by the Bikeisland frames... those are definitely 520.
oh alright, the bikeisland site says they are 520, bikesdirect says 4130, being that they are the same alloy I would imagine in the most recent run of kilo frames 520 was cheaper, and became the tubing of choice.
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Old 04-19-08, 12:05 AM   #11
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Even I have to admit a little searching would answer this right-quick...

631 is the higher grade tubing... 520 is the cheaper; do a google search and you can read to your heart's delight.
true. i actually found that the 520/4140 is inferior to the 631. i guess i was asking if the difference was worth paying $150 extra. the angus is $150 more than the kilo tt. i've seen kids say get the tt or the iro, but nobody really gives a good explanation of why. i can't find a weight for the kilo anywhere. the iro = 3.9 lb. the steamroller = < 2lb. I'd rather spring for the stronger yet heavier (obviously thicker tubing) iro after reading accounts of cracked steamroller tubing. i'm wondering how well built and how thick the 520 is on the kilo tt. at the moment i'm leaning toward the iro angus. thoughts?
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Old 04-19-08, 12:11 AM   #12
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You aren't going to be able to tell a difference between 520 and 631; what you will be able to tell a difference between is the respective geometries of the frames. Pay attention to the geometry of the frames, not the tubing.
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Old 04-19-08, 12:21 AM   #13
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true. i actually found that the 520/4140 is inferior to the 631. i guess i was asking if the difference was worth paying $150 extra. the angus is $150 more than the kilo tt. i've seen kids say get the tt or the iro, but nobody really gives a good explanation of why. i can't find a weight for the kilo anywhere. the iro = 3.9 lb. the steamroller = < 2lb. I'd rather spring for the stronger yet heavier (obviously thicker tubing) iro after reading accounts of cracked steamroller tubing. i'm wondering how well built and how thick the 520 is on the kilo tt. at the moment i'm leaning toward the iro angus. thoughts?
As was stated above, look to geometry first. I think you would be hard pressed to crack any of those frames. The kilo is a pretty solid frame, I dont think you would have problems with it.
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Old 04-19-08, 12:57 AM   #14
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As was stated above, look to geometry first. I think you would be hard pressed to crack any of those frames. The kilo is a pretty solid frame, I dont think you would have problems with it.
yeah i like that kilo aslso. i've been searching around this forum and can't really find a straight answer as to WHY one of the following frames is the better: kilo tt or iro angus.
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Old 04-19-08, 01:00 AM   #15
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Yeah the new kilo's are 520.
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Old 04-19-08, 01:02 AM   #16
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yeah i like that kilo aslso. i've been searching around this forum and can't really find a straight answer as to WHY one of the following frames is the better: kilo tt or iro angus.
There is no 'better'. There is only better for you.

In other words, what kind of ride are you looking for? What do you want in a frame? Unless you know this no one can give you any suggestions.
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Old 04-19-08, 02:00 AM   #17
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There is no 'better'. There is only better for you.

In other words, what kind of ride are you looking for? What do you want in a frame? Unless you know this no one can give you any suggestions.
ok, currently i am riding a conversion that use to be a cruiser. it's a fun bike. what i'm looking for now is something i can lean forward on and haw some ass in the city. is there really that much of a difference between these two bikes? if so, maybe i need to just stick with my conversion until i know what i really want in a frame as you say. I thought i just wanted something light, that wouldn't break, and is comfortable. apparently theres more to it than that.
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Old 04-19-08, 04:18 AM   #18
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I thought i just wanted something light, that wouldn't break, and is comfortable.
I wouldn't worry too much about weight.Any decent 4130 frame will build up light enough for riding around in the city.When it comes to different grades of tubing the difference is often so small that it matters only in competition applications.As for comfort,trackframes are far from "comfortable" in the streets.
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Old 04-19-08, 06:39 AM   #19
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Tubing is distinguished by several things: materials, cross-section, butting and wall thickness. That's why different manufacturers sell different tubesets made from the same material but call them "custom butted". Butting a tubeset is not an expensive operation, so customization options exist as different brands like Reynolds, Columbus, Tange even though the all use the same basic 4130 cr-mo stock.

Straight gauge, single-, double-butted or triple-butting is what makes the biggest difference in frame weight. For example, the Kilo TT frame is double-butted, while the Schwinn Madison is straight guage (hence it is much heavier). Not sure, but I think the Pake frame is also single-butted since it also reputed to be on the heavy side (correct me if I'm wrong).
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Old 04-19-08, 07:26 AM   #20
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I can't imagine breaking a frame in normal conditions. Trains, Planes, Cars, and Fixed gear skydiving, though.
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Old 04-19-08, 12:34 PM   #21
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Straight gauge, single-, double-butted or triple-butting is what makes the biggest difference in frame weight. For example, the Kilo TT frame is double-butted, while the Schwinn Madison is straight guage (hence it is much heavier). Not sure, but I think the Pake frame is also single-butted since it also reputed to be on the heavy side (correct me if I'm wrong).
FYI, the Madison is double butted. (From the Schwinn website: "Schwinn Custom track frame w/ N'Gauged Double Butted Cr-mo main tubes and 6mm thick horizontal dropouts.") I'm also not terribly convinced the frame alone weighs any more than the Kilo TT, at least from my experience with the two. It's more due to some of the crap components that you end up with a heavier build out the box.

Anyway, you're on the money with the butting thing apart from that.
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Old 04-19-08, 12:44 PM   #22
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From Reynoldsusa.com,

Reynolds 631 - cold drawn
UTS: 52 - 58 Tsi, 115 - 130 Ksi,
800 - 900 MPa

Following on from the success of 853, Reynolds have added 631 to the range of AIR HARDENING STEEL tube sets. This seamless cold drawn steel tube will allow the benefits of this new steel to be used in the manufacture of a wide range of frames and is now considered a worthy successor to our legendary 531 tubing. Like 853 it is suitable for TIG welding and brazing and in the heat affected joint areas will gain strength, to ultimate tensile strengths in excess of heat treated chrome molybdenum. The strength to weight ratio of 631 is equal to that of many aluminium frames, and it has an excellent fatigue life whilst providing a supple ride quality suitable for long distance events.

On road and touring frames we suggest 631 or 525 forks be used in conjunction with 631 frames. As 631 is only available in main frame tube sizes, we recommend the use of either heat treated CrMo (725) or cold drawn CrMo (525) seatstays and chainstays to complete the frame."

520 is Reynolds 4130. Butted and TIG weldable.
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Old 04-19-08, 12:50 PM   #23
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Tubing is distinguished by several things: materials, cross-section, butting and wall thickness. That's why different manufacturers sell different tubesets made from the same material but call them "custom butted". Butting a tubeset is not an expensive operation, so customization options exist as different brands like Reynolds, Columbus, Tange even though the all use the same basic 4130 cr-mo stock.

Straight gauge, single-, double-butted or triple-butting is what makes the biggest difference in frame weight. For example, the Kilo TT frame is double-butted, while the Schwinn Madison is straight guage (hence it is much heavier). Not sure, but I think the Pake frame is also single-butted since it also reputed to be on the heavy side (correct me if I'm wrong).
You seem to use single butted and straight gauge interchangeably. Single butted tubes are also butted, just one end of the tube only. straight gauge as the name implies is just that.
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Old 04-19-08, 01:12 PM   #24
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what's the use in making single butted tubes?
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Old 04-19-08, 01:31 PM   #25
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^^^seat tubes
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