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  1. #1
    partly metal, partly real sp00ki's Avatar
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    building a radial lace wheel-- tips?

    so i'll start building a new wheelset (for my rainbike) this week.
    alex da28 rims to dimension track hubs with dt swiss revolution spokes, 32x on both.
    the rear will be 3x, the front will be 0x radial.
    i've never built a radial wheel before. going to be doing it under the supervision of my friend (an experienced shop manager) so all should be well, but i wanted to get any possible tips/tricks/makes-life-easier hints for lacing a wheel radially before i start.
    (i like to have as much info about what i'm doing before i approach it)

    links and anectdotes welcome.

    8)
    Quote Originally Posted by bonechilling View Post
    Road [racing] is one of the only sports where adult men can compete in a non-scholastic setting, so inevitably 8/10 racers are fiercely-competitive nobodies. It's fun as hell, but it's also the foremost refuge of defeated and aging jocks, turned middle-management types.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    i haven't built a radial wheel either (i've been 3x), but shouldn't radial be "Easy" perse ?

  3. #3
    Spawn of Satan
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    Flange in or out?

  4. #4
    Senior Member pyroguy_3's Avatar
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    radial is murder. Seriously though, radial isn't any harder than three cross, in my opinion. I've only built one wheel up radial, didn't use it very long, and it's pretty much the same except you don't have to fight the spokes to get them going where they need to.
    Erwin Schroedinger will kill you like a cat in a box. Maybe.

  5. #5
    I_luv_hooters
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    Maybe you should ask your wheelbuilder instead of asking the internet?



    LOL just kidding. I hate those kind of responses^ and I got a few of those when I asked questions about my wheels.

  6. #6
    Tell them I hate them Peedtm's Avatar
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    heads out, extra tension (I usually add ~10-15%), no disc brakes.
    If you want to know about Tarck Bikes, PM me.
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  7. #7
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  8. #8
    Not your local jackass invisiblah's Avatar
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    don't. please, think of the children!
    It's funny how you think I'm listening.

  9. #9
    partly metal, partly real sp00ki's Avatar
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    interesting.

    so:
    -heads on the inside
    -no grease

    thx.
    Quote Originally Posted by bonechilling View Post
    Road [racing] is one of the only sports where adult men can compete in a non-scholastic setting, so inevitably 8/10 racers are fiercely-competitive nobodies. It's fun as hell, but it's also the foremost refuge of defeated and aging jocks, turned middle-management types.

  10. #10
    Tell them I hate them Peedtm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sp00ki View Post
    interesting.

    so:
    -heads on the inside
    -no grease

    thx.
    If you do heads in you lose all aero benefit from doing radial in the first place.
    If you want to know about Tarck Bikes, PM me.
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  11. #11
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    Spokes react differently depending on which side they are anchored. One way they can anchor is with the heads on the outside of the flange. This makes the wheel slightly (very slightly) more aerodynamic, since the spokes form a slightly narrower formation. This also makes the heads of the spokes visible when looking at the wheel, which has an aesthetic appeal. This lacing is, however, the weakest of the two. The spoke bend, where the spoke enters the hub, is solely responsible for the lateral forces and stresses. The bend also takes a hard hit from the vertical stresses. All of the shock traveling down the spoke leverages around the small point where the spoke bends as it enters the hub.

    The other way to do a radial lacing is with the spoke heads on the inside of the flange.....
    So, yea.

  12. #12
    partly metal, partly real sp00ki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peedtm View Post
    If you do heads in you lose all aero benefit from doing radial in the first place.
    i'm going to file this under joke.
    Quote Originally Posted by bonechilling View Post
    Road [racing] is one of the only sports where adult men can compete in a non-scholastic setting, so inevitably 8/10 racers are fiercely-competitive nobodies. It's fun as hell, but it's also the foremost refuge of defeated and aging jocks, turned middle-management types.

  13. #13
    Tell them I hate them Peedtm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sp00ki View Post
    i'm going to file this under joke.
    Good. It was intended that way. After my first post I noticed it was your rain bike, but I had to persist.

    Judging by that site (which I trust enough to talk me into a crows foot btw) it should be worth your time to do heads in for just the extra lateral support.
    If you want to know about Tarck Bikes, PM me.
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  14. #14
    Worst mechanic ever Iser@n's Avatar
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    I laced two wheels radially recently. One heads in, one heads out. Theoretically there is a difference. Imagine pulling a car with a rope. Tossing the rope over your shoulder and pull with your back to the car is easier then pulling with your front to the car.



    Anyway, heads out looks better. And (just reasoning, no scientific proof whatsoever!) you might want the spoke to break first instead of the flange...


    Building radial is easier than 3X, just do it. It looks great. And that is what the whole fixed gear thing is all about!
    Loves roadbikes

  15. #15
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    Radial lacing should only be considered if you are riding on a smooth velodrome. If this is for an urban fixie forget radial lacing. Your so called shop guru should discourage you from radial lacing. You will only save a few grams.

    The cool look of radial laced wheels is not so cool when you encounter spoke breakage.

  16. #16
    Tell them I hate them Peedtm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoreFeet View Post
    Radial lacing should only be considered if you are riding on a smooth velodrome. If this is for an urban fixie forget radial lacing. Your so called shop guru should discourage you from radial lacing. You will only save a few grams.

    The cool look of radial laced wheels is not so cool when you encounter spoke breakage.
    I've run 2000+ miles on an 18spoke vector comp on my geared bike only on streets, jumping/dropping curbs etc. Haven't broken a single spoke. Did I mention i flux betwwen 180-200lbs?

    I'm tired of ominous threats of catastrophe from radial lacing. Walk into a bike shop. All the OEM wheels are front radial these days. Even mountain bikes.
    If you want to know about Tarck Bikes, PM me.
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  17. #17
    partly metal, partly real sp00ki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoreFeet View Post
    Radial lacing should only be considered if you are riding on a smooth velodrome. If this is for an urban fixie forget radial lacing. Your so called shop guru should discourage you from radial lacing. You will only save a few grams.

    The cool look of radial laced wheels is not so cool when you encounter spoke breakage.
    this is completely false. sorry...

    i ride a radially laced mavice ellipse with no issue on the street. have for awhile now. lots of people ride radially laced wheels up front successfully.
    grams have little to do with this, by the way. more than anything else, 0x wheels are chosen for superior stiffness. radially laced wheels are exceptionally strong. this is not a secret.
    not sure where you're getting yr information, but you may want to re-evaluate your source.
    Quote Originally Posted by bonechilling View Post
    Road [racing] is one of the only sports where adult men can compete in a non-scholastic setting, so inevitably 8/10 racers are fiercely-competitive nobodies. It's fun as hell, but it's also the foremost refuge of defeated and aging jocks, turned middle-management types.

  18. #18
    I can haz? TheScientist's Avatar
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    the whole don't grease thing is an issue I encountered when building up my radially laced wheel. I was building up my wheelset with an engineer I work with who's been a mechanic on the side for 30+ years. If you don't put any lubricant in there how are you going to true it in 3 years after it's battled the elements?
    We used Paraffin wax as our lube though, and put hella tension on the spokes due to me being 220. I'm not really sure what to think about this though, might be a good question to ask your homeboy.

  19. #19
    I_luv_hooters
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    i ride my radial mavic ellipses hard and i weigh 210lbs. (i used to weigh 240!)... no problems at all.

  20. #20
    ?que? Live2Die's Avatar
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    I've got one wheel done head in and the other head out. Head out stayed true better but head in was way hotter and I think I could feel the slightly more aero profile, but the rims were different. I'd go head in if it's a rain/beater since aesthetics should always come second IMO

  21. #21
    partly metal, partly real sp00ki's Avatar
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    i concur. been reading a bunch, head in it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by bonechilling View Post
    Road [racing] is one of the only sports where adult men can compete in a non-scholastic setting, so inevitably 8/10 racers are fiercely-competitive nobodies. It's fun as hell, but it's also the foremost refuge of defeated and aging jocks, turned middle-management types.

  22. #22
    Cornucopia of Awesomeness baxtefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Live2Die View Post
    I've got one wheel done head in and the other head out. Head out stayed true better but head in was way hotter and I think I could feel the slightly more aero profile, but the rims were different. I'd go head in if it's a rain/beater since aesthetics should always come second IMO
    bwahahahahahahahahahahahaa!
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  23. #23
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by sp00ki View Post
    this is completely false. sorry...

    i ride a radially laced mavice ellipse with no issue on the street. have for awhile now. lots of people ride radially laced wheels up front successfully.
    grams have little to do with this, by the way. more than anything else, 0x wheels are chosen for superior stiffness. radially laced wheels are exceptionally strong. this is not a secret.
    not sure where you're getting yr information, but you may want to re-evaluate your source.
    No, but radially laced are exceptionally unstrong when you compare to regular 3 cross or even 2 cross lacing.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  24. #24
    partly metal, partly real sp00ki's Avatar
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    Jobst Brandt says, "Radial spokes carry loads just as well as crossed spokes."

    I've also read that they're strongest laterally, as each spoke is shorter and isn't affected by crossing spokes (which have a weakening affect laterally and radially, supposedly).

    I'm under the impression that they cannot be used for rear, because they're worthless torsionally whereas cross patterns (esp 3 or 4) are designed for just that purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by bonechilling View Post
    Road [racing] is one of the only sports where adult men can compete in a non-scholastic setting, so inevitably 8/10 racers are fiercely-competitive nobodies. It's fun as hell, but it's also the foremost refuge of defeated and aging jocks, turned middle-management types.

  25. #25
    hateful little monkey jim-bob's Avatar
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    I've never found radial-lacing to be too weak.

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