Phil Wood Hubs?
#51
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I spoke to an engineer at PW about this. PW bearings differ from those available at bearing suppliers as PW bearings are filled 100% with waterproof grease and other bearings are only filled around 30% with a standard grease, which is spec for motor bearings.
#52
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I bought my set of phils for $269 on eBay. I wanted the perfect heavy duty wheelset so I built them up to velocity deep vs and double butted spokes and big 14mm brass nipples (1 gram each!). what i got was a heavy set of wheels...
if i could do it again, i would do low profile phils to open pro cds and alloy nipples. I'd like to go lighter. i think the low pros would look better/more original, too.
if i could do it again, i would do low profile phils to open pro cds and alloy nipples. I'd like to go lighter. i think the low pros would look better/more original, too.
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I can only assume you are talking about me since i mentioned $269 and eBay. A close friend of mine works at my LBS and does all of the professional stuff I need done for... free (and I'm very grateful). When I purchase something, I don't go down there and beg or haggle with the shop or ask my friend to get me something for cheaper than retail cost. He already does enough for me. $269 is cheap for new black high flange Phils (and lockring). So as far as me just sitting at home and "clicking"... whatever. Thats not an accurate depiction of what I do.
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Cool, good info. Thats why I got them was for strength, so I'm glad you think it was wise.
#55
aka mattio
I can only assume you are talking about me since i mentioned $269 and eBay. A close friend of mine works at my LBS and does all of the professional stuff I need done for... free (and I'm very grateful). When I purchase something, I don't go down there and beg or haggle with the shop or ask my friend to get me something for cheaper than retail cost. He already does enough for me. $269 is cheap for new black high flange Phils (and lockring). So as far as me just sitting at home and "clicking"... whatever. Thats not an accurate depiction of what I do.
#56
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i wasn't talking about you, i was talking about people who buy things new in general. nothing pointed mentioned... i just wanted to make the point that it's easy to get high-quality stuff for the price of midrange gear, just by being smart and patient. so it sort of makes moot the point about this gear that it's overpriced, or that it's more money than warranted by performance upgrades.
#57
aka mattio
Heh.
But I don't take advantage of suckers - I take advantage of a friendly local scene and generous acquaintances!
By the way, I have a story to match your Lemond purchase. Pictures in a week or so.
But I don't take advantage of suckers - I take advantage of a friendly local scene and generous acquaintances!
By the way, I have a story to match your Lemond purchase. Pictures in a week or so.
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I would think that the 'smoothness' of your particular bike or drivetrain would be limited by its weakest link. If your chain/pedals/bb/tires/etc weren't perfectly cleaned & lubed/packed/seated & inflated properly/etc, then I would imagine that having cartridge vs. loose ball bearings in your hubs would take a backseat. (Not to mention the riding surface, bike weight, etc...)
For everyday street use, anyways.
For everyday street use, anyways.
#60
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I disagree... the difference between looseball and cartridge is felt on the road IMO if you're actually going fast and throwing in hard accelerations. But the difference is not noticeable at all between okay cartridge bearings (Formula) and better cartridge bearings (Phil), atleast in my experience.
If looseball bearings didn't make a difference, what reason would there even be for their continued sales? Hell, Dura Ace road hubs are all loose ball today, they're just well sealed.
If looseball bearings didn't make a difference, what reason would there even be for their continued sales? Hell, Dura Ace road hubs are all loose ball today, they're just well sealed.
Horse hockey. The typical rider, even a seasoned one isn't going to notice the difference between a cartridge and loose ball setup. Hell, the typical rider isn't going to notice whether his loose ball is too tight or just right.
Loose ball systems, I'm guessing, are cheaper to manufacturer, easier to service and provide for a greater level of commonality.
#61
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"Smooth bearings" is such an annoying, meaningless term. It's right up there with "stiff yet compliant". And Nickatina you are so full of **** sometimes.
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I just bought a set of phil's a while ago and they were going to be my nice weather rides. Does this mean that they can sit out in the rain/snow without wearing too much? It would be nice if I didn't have to worry about them.
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yes pretty much phils are all weather hubs. It's looseball hubs that you may want to reserved for nice weather if you don't like the maintenance involved
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well, not all of us live in NYC and have a nice network of like-minded friends and acquaintances to get decently priced used parts from.
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It's an "intuitive" word with no technical meaning. People debate the relative "smoothness" of different hubs, some mf in this very thread claimed that loose balls are "smooth" but phils are "smooth" in a different way... but no one can actually say what it means. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that no bfssfger who runs their mouth about this stupid **** has ever looked at a chart comparing friction coefficients (or whatever the actual technical terminology is, I don't understand this stuff either) for different hubs. Let alone what kind of difference that would make on the track or off. My guess is, it's certainly not something you could ever notice without careful use of a stopwatch under controlled conditions. I could barely tell when my hub was just about locked up from a cartridge bearing exploding... it felt like a mild headwind.
Last edited by mander; 04-28-08 at 01:02 PM.
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It's an "intuitive" word with no technical meaning. People debate the relative "smoothness" of different hubs, some mf in this very thread claimed that loose balls are "smooth" but phils are "smooth" in a different way... but no one can actually say what it means. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that no bfssfger who runs their mouth about this stupid **** has ever looked at a chart comparing friction coefficients (or whatever the actual technical terminology is, I don't understand this stuff either) for different hubs. Let alone what kind of difference that would make on the track or off.
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Thanks for all the input. I found a used pair of Phil hubs on Craigslist for $200, so I figure with the better price it could be worth it.
#73
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It's an "intuitive" word with no technical meaning. People debate the relative "smoothness" of different hubs, some mf in this very thread claimed that loose balls are "smooth" but phils are "smooth" in a different way... but no one can actually say what it means. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that no bfssfger who runs their mouth about this stupid **** has ever looked at a chart comparing friction coefficients (or whatever the actual technical terminology is, I don't understand this stuff either) for different hubs. Let alone what kind of difference that would make on the track or off. My guess is, it's certainly not something you could ever notice without careful use of a stopwatch under controlled conditions. I could barely tell when my hub was just about locked up from a cartridge bearing exploding... it felt like a mild headwind.
Seriously, we're debating bearings, not the situation in the Middle East. Chill.
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It's an "intuitive" word with no technical meaning. People debate the relative "smoothness" of different hubs, some mf in this very thread claimed that loose balls are "smooth" but phils are "smooth" in a different way... but no one can actually say what it means. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that no bfssfger who runs their mouth about this stupid **** has ever looked at a chart comparing friction coefficients (or whatever the actual technical terminology is, I don't understand this stuff either) for different hubs. Let alone what kind of difference that would make on the track or off. My guess is, it's certainly not something you could ever notice without careful use of a stopwatch under controlled conditions. I could barely tell when my hub was just about locked up from a cartridge bearing exploding... it felt like a mild headwind.