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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 04-28-08, 06:46 PM   #76
andre nickatina
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Just for the record, I can tell the difference between janky old bearings and brand new ones in my skateboard. Take that mander
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Old 04-28-08, 06:53 PM   #77
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what kind of cog/crankset/bb works with pw hubs. does it matter. dura ace cog or surly. will sugino's work. i'm sure the answer is out there if i try, but i'm sure one of u on here is dying to tell me instead.
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Old 04-28-08, 06:56 PM   #78
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The phil spec bearings are essentially industrial motor bearings with different grease, yes?

Also, phils are machined (quite beautifully, in my opinion) from a solid aluminum cyclinder, polished to a fine shine, and anodized or painted. There's a reason they're expensive, it's because they're expensive to produce. Isn't it also a relatively small operation, based in this country?
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Old 04-28-08, 09:27 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moximitre View Post
The phil spec bearings are essentially industrial motor bearings with different grease, yes?

Also, phils are machined (quite beautifully, in my opinion) from a solid aluminum cyclinder, polished to a fine shine, and anodized or painted. There's a reason they're expensive, it's because they're expensive to produce. Isn't it also a relatively small operation, based in this country?
PW bearings have both a different grease and much more grease in them than industrial motor bearings.
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Old 04-28-08, 09:51 PM   #80
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i can't sift through every post waiting for the joke...
rounded nipples being a pain in the rear?
adjusting loose balls?

please. someone go for it. something like "i found no loose ball adjustment necessary with my skinny jeans etc, etc..."
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Old 04-28-08, 10:01 PM   #81
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for what it's worth, this thread has definitely helped me decide what my next hubset will be.
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Old 04-28-08, 10:12 PM   #82
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for what it's worth, this thread has definitely helped me decide what my next hubset will be.
conclusion being?
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Old 04-28-08, 10:13 PM   #83
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Phil Wood's pretty nifty.

I like White Industries a lot too.
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Old 04-28-08, 11:24 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by dylandom View Post
what kind of cog/crankset/bb works with pw hubs. does it matter. dura ace cog or surly. will sugino's work. i'm sure the answer is out there if i try, but i'm sure one of u on here is dying to tell me instead.
darlin', i answered you over there on our home turf.
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Old 04-29-08, 12:19 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by kzac View Post
I see them everywhere, but never have actually got to feel how smooth they are. Do they live up to all the hype?

My current wheelset has some butta smooth Campy HF hubs, but I ride them in all weather. So, do I keep what I've got and get some Formulas for the winter/rain, get a Phil set for year-round goodness, or just learn to stop worrying and love what I've got?
I've riddin a Suzue Jr, a Surly, a miche hub AND Phils.

The suzue was so bad.. just soo bad.

The Surly has been alright, but needs new bearings now.. not to bad for about 2k miles of street use.

The Miche was good out of the box, and still no problems.

I'll say this, the Phils are beautiful, and costly. they took a while to break in. But rock solild, smooth now (after about 200 miles). But, dollars to donuts, if I had to do it again, I'd get Miche; the phil's, while beautiful, and smooth.. just don't give the added value to me for my performance level.

Miche is a good bet.
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Old 04-29-08, 12:21 AM   #86
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I ride phils, and I am fast on my phils.

DYLAN DYLAN, DYLAN DYLAN, and... DYLAN
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Old 04-29-08, 02:15 AM   #87
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Our little shop is like fixed gear and single speed central and has seen some beautiful bikes and beautiful builds...

I was working on my 1955 Raleigh Lenton one afternoon and had her up in the stand after going through the bb and hubs (loose ball) and after oiling everything up (she doesn't see grease) spun up the cranks just to watch her spin, and spin, and spin, and spin.

It's akin to seeing a perpetual motion machine.

A few of the regular's jaws just dropped as they had never seen a smoother running bike... the bearing are grade 25, the cups look like new, and there are no cages. I have been able to pull down a sub hour 35 on this 53 year vintage "lightweight" that hits the curb at over 30 pounds because the bike is just that smooth and fast.

This is why they still make loose ball hubs and why I would still prefer to run a high quality loose ball bb over a modern cartridge as they are far smoother and will outlast a cartridge bb with proper service.

My primary ride is my 1962 Peugeot and she gets her bearings overhauled every 3 months as she can log 4500-5000 km in that period of time...I am running vintage Normandy hubs which are also diabolically smooth after being overhauled and after having the bearings replaced so I could be sure of their grade.

I just hooked my friend up with a wheelset for his new build... they are some NOS Ukai wheels (bombproof) laced to Sansin hubs that are among the smoothest I have ever had the pleasure to use.
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Old 04-29-08, 03:14 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by frankstoneline View Post
But if I pull off my cartridge bearing front hub from my fixed gear, and my loose ball front from my road bike and spin them i can certainly feel a difference. I havent ever read coefficient charts or anything of that sort, but I can certainly feel a less "smooth" roll when I spin both hubs, as well as notice a considerable difference in how long said wheels will spin for. If you REALLY want your hubs to spin, you would use a thinner grease, as has been common in many cycling events in the past.
I'm not debating that different bearing setups (when brand new and set up properly) feel different when you spin em by hand, or that ultimately there is an objective difference that may or may not be reliably connected with perceived "smoothness". The second point I was trying to make is that this difference is probably meaningless to the average street rider when actually riding their bike instead of sitting around with the wheels off spinning the axles by hand. My main point is that in the absence of any technical definition, "smoothness" is about as useful as "stiff yet compliant" when evaluating bike parts. It's ok to buy stuff just because it makes you happy, that's what a hobby is all about. It seems to me though that these sorts of words are used to disguise this perfectly respectable pursuit as something based on calculated, objective "performance requirements". That strikes me as vain and silly.

Last edited by mander; 04-29-08 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 04-29-08, 03:42 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
Our little shop is like fixed gear and single speed central and has seen some beautiful bikes and beautiful builds...

I was working on my 1955 Raleigh Lenton one afternoon and had her up in the stand after going through the bb and hubs (loose ball) and after oiling everything up (she doesn't see grease) spun up the cranks just to watch her spin, and spin, and spin, and spin.

It's akin to seeing a perpetual motion machine.

A few of the regular's jaws just dropped as they had never seen a smoother running bike... the bearing are grade 25, the cups look like new, and there are no cages. I have been able to pull down a sub hour 35 on this 53 year vintage "lightweight" that hits the curb at over 30 pounds because the bike is just that smooth and fast.

This is why they still make loose ball hubs and why I would still prefer to run a high quality loose ball bb over a modern cartridge as they are far smoother and will outlast a cartridge bb with proper service.

My primary ride is my 1962 Peugeot and she gets her bearings overhauled every 3 months as she can log 4500-5000 km in that period of time...I am running vintage Normandy hubs which are also diabolically smooth after being overhauled and after having the bearings replaced so I could be sure of their grade.

I just hooked my friend up with a wheelset for his new build... they are some NOS Ukai wheels (bombproof) laced to Sansin hubs that are among the smoothest I have ever had the pleasure to use.
This is good stuff. What type of oil do you use?
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Old 04-29-08, 08:03 AM   #90
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And how often do you re-oil? Pretty frequently I'd imagine.
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Old 04-29-08, 05:25 PM   #91
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But if I pull off my cartridge bearing front hub from my fixed gear, and my loose ball front from my road bike and spin them i can certainly feel a difference. I havent ever read coefficient charts or anything of that sort, but I can certainly feel a less "smooth" roll when I spin both hubs, as well as notice a considerable difference in how long said wheels will spin for.
Two things... is that spinning when the bike is on the stand, or riding? 5% 'smoother' with 800g of load around the rim turns into something else when a 150 lb. rider is on the bike.

Also, the placebo effect is huge, and measurable. Don't ever underestimate the ability of people to shape their reality to their perceptions or expectations...
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Old 04-29-08, 08:13 PM   #92
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I just replaced the old mildly worn bearings on the rear wheel of my winter beater with GENUINE PHIL WOOD Spec bearings. Guess what they said on the seal?

Yup. "6001DU NSK Japan" Looks like Phil Wood uses the EXACT same bearings in their hubs Suntour was using over 15 years ago. I understand part of their "spec" is that they are packed with "Genuine Phil Wood waterproof grease". Maybe that makes a difference, maybe it doesn't. I'm pretty sure there is other grease out there that is just as good, but if these NSK bearings hold up as well as the set of NSK bearings they are replacing did I'll be happy.
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Old 04-29-08, 08:30 PM   #93
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Phil is known for having much higher "fill rates" of grease than any other manufacturer/distributor.
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Old 04-30-08, 01:55 AM   #94
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Looks like Phil Wood uses the EXACT same bearings in their hubs Suntour was using over 15 years ago.
NTN makes the bearings for Phil.

http://www.ntn.co.jp/
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Old 04-30-08, 05:12 AM   #95
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NTN makes the bearings for Phil.

http://www.ntn.co.jp/
Some of them maybe. Did you miss the part where I said I just installed a set that were made by NSK. SO apparently they source their bearings from more than one manufacturer.
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Old 04-30-08, 05:39 AM   #96
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is it just me, or is attempting to compare the drag from sealed bearings to loose ball bearings on a bike designed for street use with sneakers kinda silly?
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"Smooth bearings" is such an annoying, meaningless term. It's right up there with "stiff yet compliant".
My favorite is "stiff and responsive".

Last edited by sp00ki; 04-30-08 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 04-30-08, 05:45 AM   #97
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is it just me, or is attempting to compare the drag from sealed bearings to loose ball bearings on a bike designed for street use with sneakers kinda silly?
Well sp00ki, you ARE kinda silly but it's not JUST you. We're mostly kinda silly around here.
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Old 04-30-08, 05:48 AM   #98
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Some of them maybe.
Did you miss the part where I said I just installed a set that were made by NSK.
SO apparently they source their bearings from more than one manufacturer.
Most of them maybe.
Ignored that part.
apparently.
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Old 04-30-08, 06:27 AM   #99
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HELP?! Does anyone happen to know what spoke length I'd need for high flange Phil track hubs and Velocity Fusion rims? I'm pretty sure the Fusions have an ERD of 591mm.
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Old 04-30-08, 06:43 AM   #100
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good thing i swapped all my looseballs to ceramics for an alleycat coming up. i feel faster already! :thumbup:
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