skeem

the PAKE frame ive been riding for a while is sorta bent a bit. the bike rides decent but the wheel is in a bit sideways, but im not too concerned, ive managed thus far. BUT, i wanna get a gangsta track fork to do barspins with 700c wheels. the bmw fork wont fit with the PAKE's 1 inch headtube, so i figured id buy a steamroller frame next year and get the bmw fork. now ive come across an 05 lemond fillmore 53 cm and a 04 51 cm steamroller, both with 1 1/8 headtubes. i was wondering what peoples opinions of either bike were and if they thought a bmw fork would work on the fillmore- i know it does on steamrollers because tony fast and john prolly have used them. ive never ridden a lemond but theyre notorious for having long top tubes, and i have short arms and legs. i ride a 53 in all my road style bikes but i can manage maybe a 50-54 cm bike- would the lemond be too stretched out for someone like me? i need to decide within the next few days, its so nerve racking... thanks a bunch.

Ride Among Us

i have a 2006 lemond fillmore and yes, it has more road-like geometry than other track bikes i've had. but, for me, that translates into a nicer ride at high speeds. this bike handles so well, controls nicely, not twitchy. Its not always a bad thing to have a little slack in the geometry. I race mine in alleycats and win with it. Mine is sized slightly small. So a 53 will be fine for you if thats what you ride. I'm also not long or tall. its a great bike.

whalesalad

I'm not long either at least that's what she said

lulz.

chriskitch

My first reaction is to say go for the 2005 Fillmore (assuming the frame is in good shape)...It's got way better tubing than the Surly and it isn't made in a Taiwanese dungeon...The only bad thing I can say about USA made Lemond steel bikes are the welds aren't the cleanest...I have no doubt that they're safe...Just kind of blobby and ugly even when compared to far cheaper chinese frames...

Then I realized you were looking to be doing bar spins and tricks and whatnot...The thin tubing on the Fillmore might be a bit fragile for you...Perhaps the steamroller is a better bet...

Ride Among Us

Yeah, he's right. If youre just looking to do barspins and little tricks, what I said doesn't matter.

skeem

i see, im pretty much just concerned about the fit ie. the notoriously long toptube and whatnot. i also plan on riding in beginner level track races on rookie nights and stuff. and yeah, i mostly want it because it has a 1 1/8 hedtube so i can get a bmw or mtn fork and do barspins and ****, but im pretty sure soemone 5'6 142 wont be breaking and true temper tubing ( im guessing). i only really want it to last like a year between now and when i can afford a bmw frame- my pake is looking a bit bent and its just somewhat discerning to know that i ride this bike like 80 miles a week with a potential big problem. i sorta redished the rear wheel a teeny tiny bit to compensate but i ordered some phil hubs and new deep v rims and i dont want to have brand new handbuilt wheels on a bike that isnt aligned right.

MIN 

What is the axel to crown on a BMW fork? If it's longer than 368mm, then your HT and ST angles will become slacker.

chriskitch

Another + for the steamroller is the tall BMW fork will have less of an effect on your angles since the stock surly fork on the steamroller is taller than normal to allow for the use of fenders and fat tires...

As for the sizing on the lemond, we're talking about a difference of about a cm in the top tube between the lemond and the most extreme competition...not much of a difference really which can be compensated for with a slightly shorter stem...Lemond True Temper steel frames handle and ride REALLY nicely and that is partly due to these angles...The tubing is quite a bit thinner than what you'll get on the steamroller though...That difference makes it somewhat "springier" and lighter but it also makes it far more fragile...

This is the last year Lemond bikes will be produced by Trek...Possibly the last year they're produced at all by any manufacturer since old Greg doesn't have a good track record when it comes to playing nice with his corporate partners...So, down the line, the Lemond might be more of a unique bike...

Bottom line: a 53cm Lemond classic steel bike will probably fit you if all your other bikes are 53cm as well...you may have to do a bit of tweaking in the fit, but this is the case with almost any bike with any given rider anyway...

skeem

hmm, im now kinda doubting the fillmore can take my abuse. i guess i got psyched about it because it was 150 for frame and fork and my frame is on its way out.

" Another + for the steamroller is the tall BMW fork will have less of an effect on your angles since the stock surly fork on the steamroller is taller than normal to allow for the use of fenders and fat tires..."

i was kinda thinking that, because its what people have tole me before (and many "pros" use that setup). unless someone thinks its a bad idea i may just go to the shop tomorrow on my day off and see if me and the other mechanics (who have lots more experience than me) can slightly bend back the frame. its off by a little bit and its hard to notice but I notice and im one of those riders who expects everything he owns to work perfectly- it took me 2 years on my new mtb to realize that ITS A MTB and ITS GOING TO MAKE NOISE. so i guess steamroller next year is what itll be, unless i can ebay a real nice frame.

johnprolly

to clarify:

-the Surly fork is only about 3/16" shorter than the BMW fork.
-A reduction in HT angles = better handeling than an increase [i.e. a 650c front]
-the smaller you go with the Steamroller sizing, the more overlap you'll have for barspins.

skeem

now im second guessing myself- i was messing around with my wheel and frame earlier and im seeing that my chainline is sorta off and the wheel is either looking correctly alligned with the seat stays and misaligned with the chainstays or vice versa, depending on how i finagle it. it might be all in my head, but the idea of a new frame that wont turn my panties into a knot is kinda growing on me. hell, i really like the idea of a new frame, im just wondering if it can withstand some minimal (but more than normal street use) abuse? are the platinum ox tubes really THAT thin? has anyone seen someone do tricks on a fillmore? i dont intend to huck it down flights of steps or take it on jumps that my mtb enjoys, i just wanna ride up/down some curbs and do wheelies and barspins and dumb tricks that make me feel like ive accomplished something in my minimal cycling career- watching the TDF everyday really makes me realize that collegiate road racing is nothing to be that proud of.

chriskitch

Jenkinsal2

IIRC it has around 405mm and 38mm fork offset

also 650 does screw up your steering hardcore. Im having to get a longer fork to deal with that because it is cheaper then a new wheel but it took a lot of math to figure out the best fork to put me back to a normal trail measurement.

MIN 

That's an older Lemond Poprad and it obviously ran into a car. It proves nothing about structurally integrity.

skeem

ouch, that pictures pretty damming are the gatorskins ok?. also, the guy with the frame wants to meet in baltimore at 7 am, whereas before he said wilmington deleware (halfway between b-more and philly). im not going to drive 2 hours to baltimore from philly just to buy a frame thats only slightly better than what i have, and not EXACTLY what im looking for. id rather drive to new york on my day off.

chriskitch

It's the same year as the Lemond this guy is looking at...Produced with the same tubing as the Fillmore...In fact, with the exception of the dropouts and the brake bosses, the two frames are identical in their tubing and their angles...

BTW, it didn't run into a car...Good guess Columbo...

The tubing cracked underneath the top tube and it was literally paper thin...And actually, where and how it failed proves a lot of things about 853-type steel (yeah, I know the Lemond is True Temper but they're similar alloys with the same strengths and weaknesses)...Though it gets stronger around the welds, it gets weaker where the but ends in the tube (which is where the top tube failed)...It was sort of a freakish accident...I walked away without a scratch...The front wheel was actually straighter than before the crash...And, most importantly, the gatorskins survived (I just threw them on my Sputnik and dropped over a half pound of rotational weight)...Ordinarily, I would have expected the front wheel or the fork to fail...Nevertheless, every time a frame fails it tells something about it's structural integrity...

MIN 

953 tubing is even thinner. it still proves nothing. bikes are meant to be ridden and not ridden INTO something.

chriskitch

PLEASE...this guy is looking for a bike to learn tricks on...He's going to crash...It's reality...That's probably why he's not looking at the eight jillion aluminum frames out there...

Ride Among Us

Well I weigh 210 lbs and ride my fillmore off curbs and pretty much agressively. I love it, its not weak or thin. That frame above is not the same as mine. The idea of some kid doing barspins with a platnum ox frame and not really appreciating it's quality somehow bothers me. I hope he gets the steamroller.

skeem

no aluminum or carbon for me. hell, when i get enough money next year im going to get a steel belinkey or engin or other philly area custom road frame to race on for many years to come. its sorta sick, i enjoy my $600 steel track bike more than my aluminum road and mountain bikes which are both in the $2000+ range (so if your a thief, stop by my place and bring some beers). oh, chriskitch, hows the sputnik? i was intending to get one of em until i realized just how sexy it is and i knew itd get stolen if i locked it up anywhere. my PAKE with loads of ostentatious stickers is much lower on the sex appeal scale.

kevinfixie

where can i buy a gangster fork from?