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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 07-13-08, 01:19 PM   #1
allencb
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Sugino RD48 or Iro crankset?

I was all set to buy the Iro build kit that includes cranks, cog, chain, BB, etc for $135 until I noticed Airbomb has the RD48 for $58. I put the parts I need to duplicate Iro's kit in the shopping cart and it came up $10 cheaper (Sugino crank w/sugino BB, Surly cog, Dimension lockring, misc chain), with shipping only a couple bucks more than IRO. Total price ends up being about $6 cheaper than IRO after shipping.

What kept me from ordering was the fear that I'll have all sorts of problems getting the Sugino's chainline sorted out. I assume that the chainline with the Iro gear will work out since I would also be getting the wheelset from them as well. Is this a safe assumption or am I gambling with them as well?

Is the Sugino crank any better than the Iro to be worth bothering with it? With an entirely Iro drivetrain, is a proper chainline a sure thing?

Also, some of the stories I've heard about Airbomb give me pause as well.

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 07-13-08, 02:05 PM   #2
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The sugino and IRO cranksets are identical in quality IMHO. E.G they both suck the big one.
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Old 07-13-08, 02:09 PM   #3
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The sugino and IRO cranksets are identical in quality IMHO. E.G they both suck the big one.
How do they suck? Heavy? Weak?

What's a better choice and why?

Chris
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Old 07-13-08, 03:41 PM   #4
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The sugino and IRO cranksets are identical in quality IMHO. E.G they both suck the big one.
They both hold up really well. I don't get how you could say "they suck the big one". I've been riding RD's on my bar bike for 3 years now and my buddy has been riding the IRO's for a few years with no problems.
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Old 07-13-08, 04:06 PM   #5
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People will say the RD's flex too much. These people also typically ride clips/straps in sneakers and ride old noodley steel converted frames. Now, how are you supposed to feel the supposed flexing of your cranks when you're in soft-soled sneakers? Also, I doubt anyone on this board (myself included) is strong enough to flex any decent modern crankset enough to feel it and have it affect their performance (guess you need that extra .001 of a second getting to the coffee shop or bar).

The bottom line? Both cranks are good. I'd get the Sugino because I've been riding all sorts of Sugino cranks on various bikes for a while and have never had a problem with any.

There is too much regurgitation and relay of false information on these boards.
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Old 07-13-08, 04:25 PM   #6
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They both hold up really well. I don't get how you could say "they suck the big one". I've been riding RD's on my bar bike for 3 years now and my buddy has been riding the IRO's for a few years with no problems.
What BB did you use to get a 42mm chainline? Is your chainring inside or outside of the spider? What cog on the rear?

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People will say the RD's flex too much. These people also typically ride clips/straps in sneakers and ride old noodley steel converted frames. Now, how are you supposed to feel the supposed flexing of your cranks when you're in soft-soled sneakers? Also, I doubt anyone on this board (myself included) is strong enough to flex any decent modern crankset enough to feel it and have it affect their performance (guess you need that extra .001 of a second getting to the coffee shop or bar).

The bottom line? Both cranks are good. I'd get the Sugino because I've been riding all sorts of Sugino cranks on various bikes for a while and have never had a problem with any.

There is too much regurgitation and relay of false information on these boards.
I've only known one person who managed to quantify the amount of flex he was getting from his crank/bb/frame and that was because the cranks were hitting the chainstays.

The regurgitation and false info is why I asked. There's nothing close to a consensus about BB length. At least with the IRO, you get a packaged solution that should work. With the Suginos, I'm left to putting together a system. I don't mind that, but I don't want to be returning or selling parts and getting others trying to fix my bike.

I've never had problems with Sugino cranks either, never had problems with any cranks to be perfectly honest. Frankly, if there's no concrete reason the Suginos are better than the Iro cranks (lighter, more durable, etc), I'd be happy with the Iro ones because it's a packaged system.

BTW, regarding the Iro kit, is it safe to assume their kit will result in a proper chainline if used with their wheels?

Chris
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Old 07-13-08, 06:04 PM   #7
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I've only known one person who managed to quantify the amount of flex he was getting from his crank/bb/frame and that was because the cranks were hitting the chainstays.

...

BTW, regarding the Iro kit, is it safe to assume their kit will result in a proper chainline if used with their wheels?

Chris
Regarding the flex and hitting of the chainstays, it was most likely his frame flexing. Did he have the problem with his previous setup? Did he only change the cranks? My thoughts here are that his newer setup (the RD's) put the cranks closer to the chainstay (lower q-factor), and he was getting the same amount of frame flex as before, just had less room for the frame to flex before the cranks brushed the chainstay. Think about this; in order for the crank to brush the chainstay, it's got to be flexing on the upstroke, which isn't nearly as powerful as the downstroke. So, the frame was actually flexing on the opposite pedal's downstroke, twisting the whole bb shell area such that the crank on the upstroke brushed the chainstay. Therefore, frame flex is the culprit here. Does that make any sense?

With IRO's cranks and their 110mm bottom bracket, the chainline will be 42mm. This is pretty typical of most track hubs (not Pauls though), including IRO's hubs, Formula, etc.

You need a 103mm bottom bracket with the RD's to get a 42mm chainline. Buy the correct size bottom bracket, no need for guess and check.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/cranks/130-single.html gives the chainlines for a bunch of cranks/bb combos.

It sounds a lot more complicated than it is.
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Old 07-13-08, 06:07 PM   #8
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He never determined exactly where the flex was coming from, which is why I said crank/bb/frame, but it did go away when he replaced the bb and crankset. This was on a mtb, btw.

Regarding the Sugino and 103mm bb, the problem I'm having is that one source says a 45mm chainline with the 103, another says go with a 107 and put the chainring on the inside, etc and so on.

Chris
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Old 07-13-08, 06:09 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by FKMTB07 View Post

You need a 103mm bottom bracket with the RD's to get a 42mm chainline. Buy the correct size bottom bracket, no need for guess and check.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/cranks/130-single.html gives the chainlines for a bunch of cranks/bb combos.

It sounds a lot more complicated than it is.
It is impossible to get a 42mm chainline with the RD cranks. Even with the 103 you will have a ~45mm chainline. Most people move the ring to the inside and it is close enough to not have problems.
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Old 07-13-08, 06:10 PM   #10
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there's nothing wrong with the IRO crankset - they're not as pretty as Sugino, but that's about it.
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Old 07-13-08, 06:28 PM   #11
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Sugino RD cranks with the $25 sugino 103mm BB gives you a 42mm chain line with chainring mounted on the outside. Don't listen to anyone else. I've built up countless bikes with this setup. Runs perfect.
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Old 07-13-08, 06:43 PM   #12
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Sugino RD cranks with the $25 sugino 103mm BB gives you a 42mm chain line with chainring mounted on the outside. Don't listen to anyone else. I've built up countless bikes with this setup. Runs perfect.
http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?id=2296 42mm on inside
http://www.londonfgss.com/thread5303.html ~45mm
http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?m...62feadd9945429 45mm chainline

Show me one person who agrees with you. I ride sugino RDs and I can 100percent say that the chainring on the outside of the spider with a 103mm bb spindle will NOT give you a 42mm chainline.
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Old 07-13-08, 07:20 PM   #13
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Ask Sugino for chainline issues. I too was vexed by the 42mm chainline reports and reports of bigger chainlines by reputable mechanics (i.e. Sheldon Brown). They had a rep who got right back to me. My questions to her were (1) which square taper of Phil Wood BB to choose and (2) the chainline. To quote the Sugino worker's email:

"Thank you very much for your e-mail.

(1) JIS
(2) With a 103BB, you will get C/L 45mm (tighthening torque: 400kgf.cm.)"
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Old 07-13-08, 07:38 PM   #14
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I rode a Sugino RD for a year, and had no problems with it. I think the IRO and RD is in the same price point, so the construction is probably very similar.

I think the only difference is aesthetics, so pick whatever you think looks better.
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Old 07-13-08, 07:54 PM   #15
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It is impossible to get a 42mm chainline with the RD cranks. Even with the 103 you will have a ~45mm chainline. Most people move the ring to the inside and it is close enough to not have problems.
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Sugino RD cranks with the $25 sugino 103mm BB gives you a 42mm chain line with chainring mounted on the outside.
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Ask Sugino for chainline issues. I too was vexed by the 42mm chainline reports and reports of bigger chainlines by reputable mechanics (i.e. Sheldon Brown). They had a rep who got right back to me. My questions to her were (1) which square taper of Phil Wood BB to choose and (2) the chainline. To quote the Sugino worker's email:

"Thank you very much for your e-mail.

(1) JIS
(2) With a 103BB, you will get C/L 45mm (tighthening torque: 400kgf.cm.)"
Examples of the reason I'm concerned about the RDs, regardless of price... Square taper BBs, especially non-standard (for geared bikes), are hard to find locally. I'm going to get the Iro kit and know I'll have the right setup.

Chris
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Old 07-13-08, 09:45 PM   #16
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RD changed, older ones are supposedly fine. New ones are 45mm per Sugino's website.

http://www.suginoltd.co.jp/singlespeeder_e.html
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Old 07-13-08, 09:48 PM   #17
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more importantly, buy a quality lockring/cog. your hub and face will thank you.
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Old 07-14-08, 05:58 AM   #18
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Sugino RD cranks with the $25 sugino 103mm BB gives you a 42mm chain line with chainring mounted on the outside. Don't listen to anyone else. I've built up countless bikes with this setup. Runs perfect.
I used the Sugino RD and matching 103mm BB on two bikes with no problems and on an older Raleigh Sprite I used a Shimano 109mm with the Sugino RD and that worked fine but on the freewheel side I needed to use an old BB lockring as a spacer.

The RD is a fine crankset.
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